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Solved Bleached sky line and panning
Hi to all,
I often see the situation that is present in the video clip (see link)
As is very apparent - the sky is bleached, but as the view is changed - the bleaching is then replaced by more of a correct exposure and shows detail.
I have picked an extreme situation to demo what I am commenting about.
How does one correct for this taking into account that the change from bleached to "detailed" occurs over a time period?
If an effect is used - it will not if I understand correctly - have a graduated effect - but one that is either nothing or everything.
This results in for example when reducing brightness of a "sky" that is ok in the bleached portion but one that is then too dark after a few seconds.
Is there a method of graduating an effect to influence a section of video over a period of time?
Regards,
Peter
I often see the situation that is present in the video clip (see link)
As is very apparent - the sky is bleached, but as the view is changed - the bleaching is then replaced by more of a correct exposure and shows detail.
I have picked an extreme situation to demo what I am commenting about.
How does one correct for this taking into account that the change from bleached to "detailed" occurs over a time period?
If an effect is used - it will not if I understand correctly - have a graduated effect - but one that is either nothing or everything.
This results in for example when reducing brightness of a "sky" that is ok in the bleached portion but one that is then too dark after a few seconds.
Is there a method of graduating an effect to influence a section of video over a period of time?
Regards,
Peter
by Peter
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Hi Peter
The sky is over-exposed and is "clipping". Once a signal "clips" it is virtually impossible to recover the detail and colour, because the cameras sensor has been blinded by the light, exactly like starring at the sun with your naked eyes.
Overcast/sunny days like this are perfect conditions for this to happen. The best solution is to change the settings in your camera. Close down the aperture and reduce ISO setting if possible. I had this exact problem when I filmed my sister's wedding last year. It was outside and there was a low altitude haze in the sky. The wedding was in the shade of a large tree, but area was surrounded by white buildings reflecting light everywhere. When I started moving around, away from shade of tree, all white surfaces and sky were "clipping". I didn't realise what was happening until I downloaded video to PC. I was pretty devastated.
On more advanced cameras, you can turn on an exposure meter, which shows you if the signal is being clipped in real time. This is what I should have been paying more closer attention to when I was filming with my Sony A7s camera.
The first logical thing I did was add Brightness & Contrast filter in Vegas and reduce Brightness. I then started added the Curves filter. However, there were sections where the very top of signal was "clipped", which looks like a flat line in video scopes. Long story short, I imported all the footage into the free version of DaVinci Resolve, which has advance colour correction tools. DaVinci was able to recover more highlights than Vegas Pro. I had to create lots of key-frames for each colour correction tool I used and it literally took me 3 weeks to process all of the video. Using key-frames I was able to increases/decrease slider controls over time, so that only sections which were "blown out", were fixed.
Once I complete a massive project for Movie Studio Zen, which I have been quietly working on, I would love to go back to Davinci and learn how to use it more proficiently.
www.blackmagicdesign.com/au/products/davinciresolve
In Movie Studio Platinum and Vegas Pro, you will need to press the "little clocks" inside of all colour correction tools you apply and add key-frames to things like Brightness & Contrast. It's probably a good time to re-read and watch this tutorial of mine.
How to use Colour Correction Tools in Sony Vegas Pro
Regards
Derek
The sky is over-exposed and is "clipping". Once a signal "clips" it is virtually impossible to recover the detail and colour, because the cameras sensor has been blinded by the light, exactly like starring at the sun with your naked eyes.
Overcast/sunny days like this are perfect conditions for this to happen. The best solution is to change the settings in your camera. Close down the aperture and reduce ISO setting if possible. I had this exact problem when I filmed my sister's wedding last year. It was outside and there was a low altitude haze in the sky. The wedding was in the shade of a large tree, but area was surrounded by white buildings reflecting light everywhere. When I started moving around, away from shade of tree, all white surfaces and sky were "clipping". I didn't realise what was happening until I downloaded video to PC. I was pretty devastated.
On more advanced cameras, you can turn on an exposure meter, which shows you if the signal is being clipped in real time. This is what I should have been paying more closer attention to when I was filming with my Sony A7s camera.
The first logical thing I did was add Brightness & Contrast filter in Vegas and reduce Brightness. I then started added the Curves filter. However, there were sections where the very top of signal was "clipped", which looks like a flat line in video scopes. Long story short, I imported all the footage into the free version of DaVinci Resolve, which has advance colour correction tools. DaVinci was able to recover more highlights than Vegas Pro. I had to create lots of key-frames for each colour correction tool I used and it literally took me 3 weeks to process all of the video. Using key-frames I was able to increases/decrease slider controls over time, so that only sections which were "blown out", were fixed.
Once I complete a massive project for Movie Studio Zen, which I have been quietly working on, I would love to go back to Davinci and learn how to use it more proficiently.
www.blackmagicdesign.com/au/products/davinciresolve
In Movie Studio Platinum and Vegas Pro, you will need to press the "little clocks" inside of all colour correction tools you apply and add key-frames to things like Brightness & Contrast. It's probably a good time to re-read and watch this tutorial of mine.
How to use Colour Correction Tools in Sony Vegas Pro
Regards
Derek
ℹ️ Remember to turn everything off at least once a week, including your brain, then sit somewhere quiet and just chill out.
Unplugging is the best way to find solutions to your problems. If you would like to share some love, post a customer testimonial or make a donation.
Unplugging is the best way to find solutions to your problems. If you would like to share some love, post a customer testimonial or make a donation.
Last Edit:17 Jul 2016 12:07 by DoctorZen
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Hi Derek,
The video sure is "clipped" - there is a rather thick line at the top of the "waveform" indicator. As you stated - effectively blasted out any detail.
But - you also answered the point I was primarily inquiring about - and no surprise - if I wish to deal in the future with less extreme examples, it's over to keyframes. Had lots of time in that department!
Even then it would be a delicate operation to ensure that choppiness did not become apparent as the corrections are applied.
My camera does have zebra indicator to give an idea when over exposure is occurring - but in the case show my better half was filming her borders as she has the best rose blooms ever since arriving in the great frozen north. Winter was relatively mild and they were not cut down to ground or killed as per usual.
So, as you say - better to control the camera.
One other quick point:
When panning with a certain speed -is it correct that using "camera stabilisation" will cause judder in the resulting video since it attempts to hold the image / view in place but eventually gives up and moves. Therefore - whilst panning - it is more judicious not to apply?
As per usual, thank you for your thoughts
Peter
The video sure is "clipped" - there is a rather thick line at the top of the "waveform" indicator. As you stated - effectively blasted out any detail.
But - you also answered the point I was primarily inquiring about - and no surprise - if I wish to deal in the future with less extreme examples, it's over to keyframes. Had lots of time in that department!
Even then it would be a delicate operation to ensure that choppiness did not become apparent as the corrections are applied.
My camera does have zebra indicator to give an idea when over exposure is occurring - but in the case show my better half was filming her borders as she has the best rose blooms ever since arriving in the great frozen north. Winter was relatively mild and they were not cut down to ground or killed as per usual.
So, as you say - better to control the camera.
One other quick point:
When panning with a certain speed -is it correct that using "camera stabilisation" will cause judder in the resulting video since it attempts to hold the image / view in place but eventually gives up and moves. Therefore - whilst panning - it is more judicious not to apply?
As per usual, thank you for your thoughts
Peter
by Peter
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I don't know.
I avoid using Stabilisation like the plague.
I avoid using Stabilisation like the plague.
ℹ️ Remember to turn everything off at least once a week, including your brain, then sit somewhere quiet and just chill out.
Unplugging is the best way to find solutions to your problems. If you would like to share some love, post a customer testimonial or make a donation.
Unplugging is the best way to find solutions to your problems. If you would like to share some love, post a customer testimonial or make a donation.
by DoctorZen
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Hi Peter,
In addition to Derek's excellent post recommendation......
It appears in your sample video, you have your camera AE engaged. When you move from the predominate area of darks to the lighter areas of the sky, the sensor tries to adjust the exposure on the sky from overexposed to proper exposed. This off course underexposes the darker areas, but it is not as noticeable as the sky exposure changing from washed out to cloud detail.
There are times when I have used auto exposure, but try to avoid it. As I prepare for the scene shot, exposure settings of the bright areas are compared to those in the darker areas. Then a decision is made which is most important to the results and a manual setting is made for that scene. If I lean in any direction, it is almost always toward under exposure. Sometimes it becomes an average of the darks and lights. again leaning on the underexposure side.
As Derek points out, once the bright areas are washed out (clipped), the detail is lost and most difficult or impossible to bring out in post adjustments. Often, when we slightly underexpose, the detail is preserved and we can better apply color correction tools during post. Often this is a trade off between what we think is the most important parts of the scene and balance for those parts of the scene which support the more important parts.
Some of the higher end cameras have a greater dynamic range and are much better at proper exposure of the highlight areas, while maintaining the detail of the shadow areas. This provides for a much better product and less complications to correct during post, but these cameras also come with a much higher price!
There are times I will sacrifice the sky area and allow it to washout, if I feel the detail of the sky in the background is less important than the detail in the shadows. These are normally times when very little sky will be included in the scene or it will be only in the scene for a short period and I certainly don't want the sensor on AE to be changing the exposure as the scene moves in the frame.
Yes, I agree. The general rule is......when the camera is mounted on a steady platform, we turn stabilization off. When we handhold, stabilization is turned on. When and if you use camera stabilization will depend first on the camera stabilization system and second on your ability to steady the camera, and third based on the effect you wish to achieve.
The best camera stabilization seems to be optical. Many of the sensor or electronic stabilization system pretty much fail and optical prevail, but different cameras with different photographers will yield different results. In my experience, any reasonably smooth pan head will perform well when stabilization is turned off. Of course the same rule applies if we use a steady device while holding the camera, or if we ourselves are very good at handholding our rig very steady, then stabilization may not make an improvement and may even make it worse.
In addition to Derek's excellent post recommendation......
It appears in your sample video, you have your camera AE engaged. When you move from the predominate area of darks to the lighter areas of the sky, the sensor tries to adjust the exposure on the sky from overexposed to proper exposed. This off course underexposes the darker areas, but it is not as noticeable as the sky exposure changing from washed out to cloud detail.
There are times when I have used auto exposure, but try to avoid it. As I prepare for the scene shot, exposure settings of the bright areas are compared to those in the darker areas. Then a decision is made which is most important to the results and a manual setting is made for that scene. If I lean in any direction, it is almost always toward under exposure. Sometimes it becomes an average of the darks and lights. again leaning on the underexposure side.
As Derek points out, once the bright areas are washed out (clipped), the detail is lost and most difficult or impossible to bring out in post adjustments. Often, when we slightly underexpose, the detail is preserved and we can better apply color correction tools during post. Often this is a trade off between what we think is the most important parts of the scene and balance for those parts of the scene which support the more important parts.
Some of the higher end cameras have a greater dynamic range and are much better at proper exposure of the highlight areas, while maintaining the detail of the shadow areas. This provides for a much better product and less complications to correct during post, but these cameras also come with a much higher price!
There are times I will sacrifice the sky area and allow it to washout, if I feel the detail of the sky in the background is less important than the detail in the shadows. These are normally times when very little sky will be included in the scene or it will be only in the scene for a short period and I certainly don't want the sensor on AE to be changing the exposure as the scene moves in the frame.
Peter wrote: One other quick point:
When panning with a certain speed -is it correct that using "camera stabilisation" will cause judder in the resulting video since it attempts to hold the image / view in place but eventually gives up and moves. Therefore - whilst panning - it is more judicious not to apply?
Yes, I agree. The general rule is......when the camera is mounted on a steady platform, we turn stabilization off. When we handhold, stabilization is turned on. When and if you use camera stabilization will depend first on the camera stabilization system and second on your ability to steady the camera, and third based on the effect you wish to achieve.
The best camera stabilization seems to be optical. Many of the sensor or electronic stabilization system pretty much fail and optical prevail, but different cameras with different photographers will yield different results. In my experience, any reasonably smooth pan head will perform well when stabilization is turned off. Of course the same rule applies if we use a steady device while holding the camera, or if we ourselves are very good at handholding our rig very steady, then stabilization may not make an improvement and may even make it worse.
Best Regards......George
by Eagle Six
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Hi George,
Yes, AE was engaged for this sequence of shots.
Also had problems with the roses - "Madame Hardy" appeared as white headlights distributed throughout the greenery. Managed to deal with that.
Living with such a large percentage of woodland on the property - I have tried in the past to be careful to limit "sky" appearing since it nearly always bleaches out being so bright compared to the rest of the shadowy landscape.
Stabilisation:
The Panasonic HC-X920 that I use has the feature of being able to enhance stabilisation by pressing on an icon present on the view display during filming - press it again and it is turned off. This feature works extremely well when I film whilst tracking with my mutt.
The "normal" in camera OIS was what I was wondering about - from what I understand it is Optical stabilisation (but remember, this camera is prosumer level! - we are not talking thousands of dollars).
Taking the info. supplied in the messages above - I have been able to tick a few more boxes that had question marks against them - forum members hit target again!
Many thanks,
Peter
Yes, AE was engaged for this sequence of shots.
Also had problems with the roses - "Madame Hardy" appeared as white headlights distributed throughout the greenery. Managed to deal with that.
Living with such a large percentage of woodland on the property - I have tried in the past to be careful to limit "sky" appearing since it nearly always bleaches out being so bright compared to the rest of the shadowy landscape.
Stabilisation:
The Panasonic HC-X920 that I use has the feature of being able to enhance stabilisation by pressing on an icon present on the view display during filming - press it again and it is turned off. This feature works extremely well when I film whilst tracking with my mutt.
The "normal" in camera OIS was what I was wondering about - from what I understand it is Optical stabilisation (but remember, this camera is prosumer level! - we are not talking thousands of dollars).
Taking the info. supplied in the messages above - I have been able to tick a few more boxes that had question marks against them - forum members hit target again!
Many thanks,
Peter
by Peter
The following user(s) said Thank You: Eagle Six
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Hi Peter,
I'm a bit confused about the function of your camera, perhaps you can educate me. My question is about the function of the stabilization features.
Reading the online manual, it appears the OIS is on all the time and cannot be turned off! That is the part confusing me, is that correct? It talks about the stabilization lock is on when pressing the icon on the touch screen and off when not touching it, which implies this is some kind of additional stabilization, perhaps sensor based. It also talks about turning off the icon, but I don't see, or understand, how the OIS can be turned off.
Please help straighten me out.
I'm a bit confused about the function of your camera, perhaps you can educate me. My question is about the function of the stabilization features.
Reading the online manual, it appears the OIS is on all the time and cannot be turned off! That is the part confusing me, is that correct? It talks about the stabilization lock is on when pressing the icon on the touch screen and off when not touching it, which implies this is some kind of additional stabilization, perhaps sensor based. It also talks about turning off the icon, but I don't see, or understand, how the OIS can be turned off.
Please help straighten me out.
Best Regards......George
by Eagle Six
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Hi George,
The camera is equipped with what Panasonic term Hybrid OIS.
HYBRID O.I.S. is a 5-axis correction that detects and effectively compensates for the camera's 5 types of movement - horizontal, vertical, axis of rotation, vertical rotation and horizontal rotation. (quote Panasonic). Hybrid between Optical and Electronic.
This feature may be turned on or off from the main control options.
Then in addition - there is a Optic stabilization lock. Operated from a touch sensitive icon on the swing out screen (again on or off).
When pressed during video capture it maximises the sensitivity of the OIS.
It is quick to turn on or off during filming. That is the feature I use when tracking with my dog as she passes through bush or over rough ground - I'm following at the end of a 40' leash when on open ground but at less than 10' if she is wandering around rocks, trees or any other obstacles. Filming in those conditions without the lock being operating makes for feelings of sea sickness when watching the resulting video - the stabilizer when used in these conditions is amazing! Smoothed out without loss in image size.
Maybe it is all padding and sales talk - but there is a definite difference between when OIS is on or off, with further stability when the lock is operated in addition - that allows for video capture in really rough ground conditions.
I'm happy!
A bit long winded - but hope that explains and your query has been answered
Windows Movie Maker - there is a stabilisation option in that software - I was surprised how effective that was as well (certainly not perfect but..... not to be sneezed at)
Peter
The camera is equipped with what Panasonic term Hybrid OIS.
HYBRID O.I.S. is a 5-axis correction that detects and effectively compensates for the camera's 5 types of movement - horizontal, vertical, axis of rotation, vertical rotation and horizontal rotation. (quote Panasonic). Hybrid between Optical and Electronic.
This feature may be turned on or off from the main control options.
Then in addition - there is a Optic stabilization lock. Operated from a touch sensitive icon on the swing out screen (again on or off).
When pressed during video capture it maximises the sensitivity of the OIS.
It is quick to turn on or off during filming. That is the feature I use when tracking with my dog as she passes through bush or over rough ground - I'm following at the end of a 40' leash when on open ground but at less than 10' if she is wandering around rocks, trees or any other obstacles. Filming in those conditions without the lock being operating makes for feelings of sea sickness when watching the resulting video - the stabilizer when used in these conditions is amazing! Smoothed out without loss in image size.
Maybe it is all padding and sales talk - but there is a definite difference between when OIS is on or off, with further stability when the lock is operated in addition - that allows for video capture in really rough ground conditions.
I'm happy!
A bit long winded - but hope that explains and your query has been answered
Windows Movie Maker - there is a stabilisation option in that software - I was surprised how effective that was as well (certainly not perfect but..... not to be sneezed at)
Peter
by Peter
The following user(s) said Thank You: Eagle Six
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Peter wrote: This feature may be turned on or off from the main control options.
Thank You Peter, this is what I thought, but just couldn't find it in the online manual. I've never seen a camera with OIS that could not be turned off, so thought I better ask. It appears the OIS does well with normal handheld shooting, use the Lock feature when there is heavy handheld movement such as following your dog, and then turn it off when the camera is on a steady mount such as a tripod or steady-cam rig.
Thanks again for clearing that up.
Best Regards......George
by Eagle Six
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Relating to the original message in this topic:
...How does one correct for this taking into account that the change from bleached to "detailed" occurs over a time period?
...Is there a method of graduating an effect to influence a section of video over a period of time?
I found a method - but am unable to reference to the person / material on the net since I did not note at the time and have been unable to find the link again - apologies to the original source.
Basically - Sony Vegas Pro / Movie Studio does not have an "Auto correct" facility to rectify in a generalised manner problems of exposure / colour balance.
If one is capable to using the tools supplied by the software - then a corrected result is obtainable (See Derek's tutorial:
www.moviestudiozen.com/free-tutorials/sony-vegas-pro/526-colour-correction-tools-sony-vegas-pro
But for quick in a hurry result an auto correction for the whole video / clip is possible for those with SV Pro by:
Placing the media on to the time line.
Run the cursor line so that an image is generated in the preview window area.
Save a snap shot of the image in the preview window to file (note where it is placed).
Then open an Image editor (eg: Gimp, Faststone Image viewer(free)) and load the image file into the software.
Use the "Auto correct" feature of that software to generate a "balanced / corrected" image.
If satisfied, save that image to file.
Return back to Vegas Pro
Make sure the media file is selected on the time line and open up the Sony "Colour Match" effect plugin.
In the Source image section - select "File" (the auto corrected image file)
In the Target image section - select "Screen" and in the preview window select the area of the image you wish to auto correct (possibly the whole of the screen!) - this is done by left clicking the mouse (or equivalent) and pulling the blued overlay to cover the required area.
The image and the rest of the media will now by "auto corrected".
With judicious sectioning of a media file - faults may be rapidly auto corrected "en masse" - without the hassle of attempting to achieve the same via. key-framing.
I realise this is not for those who have the ability to colour correct in a more professional manner - but for those who would find mastering of the colour correcting tools too daunting - it is IMHO a way of seeing and obtaining overall balanced video from one that was problematic in the first place.
Hoping this is of use - and again apologies for being unable to supply a reference to the original author - regarding which, if any other person is able to do so, I would be most grateful.
Regards,
Peter
...How does one correct for this taking into account that the change from bleached to "detailed" occurs over a time period?
...Is there a method of graduating an effect to influence a section of video over a period of time?
I found a method - but am unable to reference to the person / material on the net since I did not note at the time and have been unable to find the link again - apologies to the original source.
Basically - Sony Vegas Pro / Movie Studio does not have an "Auto correct" facility to rectify in a generalised manner problems of exposure / colour balance.
If one is capable to using the tools supplied by the software - then a corrected result is obtainable (See Derek's tutorial:
www.moviestudiozen.com/free-tutorials/sony-vegas-pro/526-colour-correction-tools-sony-vegas-pro
But for quick in a hurry result an auto correction for the whole video / clip is possible for those with SV Pro by:
Placing the media on to the time line.
Run the cursor line so that an image is generated in the preview window area.
Save a snap shot of the image in the preview window to file (note where it is placed).
Then open an Image editor (eg: Gimp, Faststone Image viewer(free)) and load the image file into the software.
Use the "Auto correct" feature of that software to generate a "balanced / corrected" image.
If satisfied, save that image to file.
Return back to Vegas Pro
Make sure the media file is selected on the time line and open up the Sony "Colour Match" effect plugin.
In the Source image section - select "File" (the auto corrected image file)
In the Target image section - select "Screen" and in the preview window select the area of the image you wish to auto correct (possibly the whole of the screen!) - this is done by left clicking the mouse (or equivalent) and pulling the blued overlay to cover the required area.
The image and the rest of the media will now by "auto corrected".
With judicious sectioning of a media file - faults may be rapidly auto corrected "en masse" - without the hassle of attempting to achieve the same via. key-framing.
I realise this is not for those who have the ability to colour correct in a more professional manner - but for those who would find mastering of the colour correcting tools too daunting - it is IMHO a way of seeing and obtaining overall balanced video from one that was problematic in the first place.
Hoping this is of use - and again apologies for being unable to supply a reference to the original author - regarding which, if any other person is able to do so, I would be most grateful.
Regards,
Peter
by Peter
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