Idea Editing, Fx's and work flow.

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Replied by Eagle Six on topic Editing, Fx's and work flow.

Peter wrote: George - The Avid DNxHR codec has produced very acceptable results - but have seen comments regarding Cineform many times and have been meaning to see how that would go.

Hi Peter,

I use DNxHD 220x as an acquisition from both a Canon XLH1 and Panasonic GH4. I think it's an excellent codec to my other option of ProRes HQ. However I can step back to explain why and what brought me to using CineForm as an intermediate. It didn't have anything to do with the camera or Vegas Pro, rather my computer! At the time my computer was woefully under powered to preview 1080p at 'Full Best' using ProRes or DNxHD. So, I developed a workflow that went, camera acquisition, to render all clips to CineForm, then bring those into the timeline for editing, etc.

Although there are other codec available within Vegas Pro (actually at the time I was still using Movie Studio), CineForm produced the smallest size files (for mass storage concerns, not as small as the source, but smaller than other lossless codec) while at the same time preserving the quality with visually lossless results, and ran flawlessly at full preview speed using 'Full Best'. Also by transcoding to CineForm (avi) I avoided the memory limitation problem of using QuickTime, which is only 32 bit (both DNxHD and ProRes). By rendering all the clips to CineForm first, I took a hit up front in time, but I set these processes up in batch processing while I stepped away to work on other projects.

Recently I acquired a much better computer that will pretty much run any 1080p source media at Full Best at full preview speed. However, with the GH4 I am now acquiring 4K source media which does sometimes challenge my new computer, so the CineForm intermediates are still in the game for me for certain projects.

From this I started to also use CineForm intermediates as a way to render out parts of a complex project.

If you are interested in trying the CineForm, and are not aware, it's pretty easy to setup. The CineForm codec is available by downloading the free GoPro Studio software. You may or may not have a use for the GoPro Studio software, but it does install the CineForm codec and if you don't need the GoPro, it can just sit on your desktop and does not interfere with other work or programs.

Once GoPro Studio has been installed, the CineForm codec is available in both Vegas Pro and Movie Studio under the 'Video for Windows (*.avi)' Format. Pick any of the Templates that best match your project/source. Then, just like you would select DNxHD, In the 'Custom Template', select CineForm from within the 'Video Format:' drop down list. In the associated 'Configure...' button, you can make various settings. I would suggest 'Encoded format:' as YUV 4:2:2, and 'Encoding quality' as Filmscan1, as a start. This may be overkill for your source media, but it will assure you have the least loss of quality with any source media.


Peter wrote: Colour: Now that is where I am capable of spending a fair bit of time, arrive at what I consider a pleasant result, only to view the event (!) at a later time and realise my eyes adjusted to some bizarre over kill.


This is not uncommon for me as well. So, I often take a break and step away to come back and review my settings. Regardless, whatever monitor we are using is what we have to use, so I work within that limitation. I do often render small loop regions to a thumb drive and check the results on my Sony flat screen to check for any surprises before rendering the final project.


Peter wrote: A fairly common problem I see is moving from snow cover (correct white balance and exposure) into an area of dull rock, then back into snow. The result is a few seconds of blasted exposure and bondi blue sky!


Not familiar with exactly how or what you are filming (panning scenery or following action, perhaps), this is probably something to be corrected with your filming. If anyone has a tip for this I'm all eyes and ears! If you are following action, probably zoom in to fill the screen with more of the moving subject(s) and eliminate some of the background. If it's during a pan, slow the pan down, and or stop the pan before the rocks and start another pan from a slightly different angle of the rocks. Just some thoughts. There are some situations the camera sensor just can't overcome and we need to use different angles, frame sizes, etc. to achieve an improvement.
Best Regards......George
The following user(s) said Thank You: mmcswnavy24, Peter, vkmast
15 Dec 2016 03:33 #11

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Replied by Peter on topic Editing, Fx's and work flow.

Realising that the topic title is being distanced a little from the actual content of the thread -

Always amazing when gems are casually scattered to be picked out and carefully stored - Richard, your sleight of hand was noted and recognised for what it was; then instantly I recalled the colour of glacial ice!
Colour reception is a real mixed bag of tricks. White paint pigments emit differently (lead and Titanium oxides), flower petals viewed in different light wavelengths show patterns invisible in the visual spectrum. Then there are the many "blue bird" feathers that are not blue but gray.
I have in the past been driven nuts attempting to capture the reds of different flowers - only to realise the limitations of the receptors in the camera are one root cause of disappointment.

Fleeting exposure problems:
An example maybe viewed via. the following link:

between 2 mins39 and 2 mins57. View HD if possible.
The sequence is a rapid placement on You tube and has not been stabilised, corrected in any manner and has an embarrassing spelling mistake. Please realise it was minus 11 celcius and I was becoming delirious (my excuse).
If anybody would want to attempt a correction - feel free.

Codec: More to play with! Where has the time gone where I thought that I would be able to turn on the camera, record, then just sit back and view in peace. Obviously George, I am unable to resist the temptations you place in my path.

Peter
15 Dec 2016 12:32 #12

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Replied by Richard Jones on topic Editing, Fx's and work flow.

Hi Peter,

You were struggling with flat lighting c9onditions in your video of the dog tracking in the snow. Always difficult!

I think we've all faced up to the problem of having to correct various colours in the same scene. Often it is enough to correct the main centre of interest (e.g. a face or the largest flower) and leave the rest as it is if it's not too bad. The ordinary viewer will then be inclined to accept the overall image even if a video editor might wince a bit. I've managed to get away with this on a number of occasions!

The "bible" in colour matters is often thought to be "The Art and Technique of Digital Color Correction" by Steve Hullfish (published by Focal Press). It is very detailed and does not relate directly to Vegas but so much of what he says can easily be applied within this programme. Thoroughly recommended.

Best Wishes,

Richard
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15 Dec 2016 22:19 #13

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Replied by Peter on topic Editing, Fx's and work flow.

Thank you Richard for the recommendation regarding the text you mentioned.

I shall be working with that "tracking" video later this evening and tomorrow since we are having blizzard conditions outside for the next 24 hours - so as long as the power holds or the generator keeps running, it will keep my from under my wife's feet.

Regards,

Peter
16 Dec 2016 11:17 #14

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