Solved Just a concept question about "Start all new projects with these settings"....

  • Posts: 57
  • Karma: 3
  • Thank you received: 13

Just a concept question about "Start all new projects with these settings".... was created by HawaiianEye

Let's say, 1080p at approx. 30fps. (rounded) Later I dump some 1080p 24fps clips in the project.
What happens? Is the 24fps transformed by Vegas into 30fps?
I saw a video that said to basically start with the highest fps clip you have. Say 60fps.
Then add equal or lower fps clips. Is this true?
Or...what if I have 4K 30fps, and 60fps, but I want the resulting video to be closest to 24fps?
So, these questions may seem like, I just haven't grasped the concept, but I'm sure if I want to
know the answer, many others delving into Vegas and MS will also.
05 Jun 2019 12:42 #1

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • Posts: 3611
  • Karma: 59
  • Thank you received: 1306

Replied by DoctorZen on topic Just a concept question about "Start all new projects with these settings"....

Here is the short version...

1. Always try to avoid mixing different Frame Rates if possible.

2. If you must use different frame rates, combining different frame rates that are multiples of each other, is the best way to go.
Example: 30fps and 60fps OR 25fps and 50fps

3. Which ever video type will be used the most in your project, should be used to set your Project Properties.
So if you have 90% of your videos at 30fps and only 10% at 60fps, you should be setting your Project Properties to match the 30fps video.

4. If you have 90% of your videos at 60fps and only 10% at 30fps, you should be setting your Project Properties to match the 60fps video.
When you do this, Vegas will create "fake frames" to double the 30fps video to 60fps.

5. It is much better to be reducing a video's frame rate, instead of adding to a video's frame rate.
Example: Converting 60fps to 30fps.

6. When you add videos with different frame rates, Vegas will automatically convert everything to match your Project Properties Frame Rate settings.

Or...what if I have 4K 30fps, and 60fps, but I want the resulting video to be closest to 24fps?

That is a terrible idea! Use the Frame Rate that was used the MOST.
Converting 30fps or 60fps to 24fps, can end up looking awful.

7. If you are using 60fps video and slowing it down to 24fps, that is perfectly OK and will look great! In this scenario, your Project Properties will be set to 24fps as well.

I'm sure other members can add to what I have started here......

Regards
Derek
Remember to turn everything off at least once a week, including your brain, then sit somewhere quiet and just chill out.
Unplugging is the best way to find solutions to your problems.
Peace :)
The following user(s) said Thank You: Eagle Six
05 Jun 2019 14:47 #2

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • Posts: 802
  • Karma: 46
  • Thank you received: 567

Replied by Eagle Six on topic Just a concept question about "Start all new projects with these settings"....

In addition to Derek's excellent line-up......

Part of deciding what frame rate to use in a project, starts during the planning of the shoot and involves 'the look' I'm going for, and the type of 'scenes' I will be shooting. If I want the Hollywood drama look, it will be 24 fps and everything I shoot will need to conform to that frame rate. If the film is sport action I will shoot in 59.940 fps and everything I shoot will need to conform to that frame rate. If the film includes mostly slow to moderate action and some limited fast action scenes, I may shoot the slow to moderate action at 29.970 fps and the fast action at 59.940 fps, with the intent of using most of the 59.940 fps footage in slow motion, and conforming the remainder to 29.970 fps, and using the slow motion footage at equal increments of 29.970, such as 2X or 4X slow motion.

When conforming 29.970 and 59.940 to 24p I will use a third party software such as ProDad Rspeeder or DaVinci Resolve (or something like Twixtor) and optical flow to produce the best results to those selected scenes before adding them to Vegas Pro or Movie Studio. Although sometimes the tools with VP or MS are sufficient for conforming and dependent on the scene, a third party software may not be needed. For example if most of the project is shot at 29.970 fps and there are a few short scenes of fast action shot at 59.940 fps, simply slowing the 59.940 to 29.970 (removing every other frame) and adding a slight motion blur will smooth out those fast action scenes, that may be acceptable.

If an interview scene (talking head) will be included I will shoot that scene in the frame rate of the project so I don't have to mess with altering the audio.

Occasionally I will put together a video using footage from various sources after the fact, so all the pre-planning is thrown out the window and I will use various methods as Derek has listed to get the best overall results. This is all based on NTSC. If we are working with PAL, I think it may be a bit easier to fake 25/50p to conform to a 24p project.

Also for getting that Hollywood Look, there are other tools such as color grading and LUT's that can also fake a 24p production using 29.970 fps source footage.

And, if you are using Vegas Pro, I think there may be some tools in the Happy Otter Script add-on, that may provide some great results conforming fps footage.

I avoid interlace footage like the plague, but if I did have to use it, I think I would first conform it to progressive and then work on matching the frame rate.

For some videos I use a lot of intermediate renders, working on scenes that I want to fine tune, that need a lot of heavy lifting processor power, as in using optical flow, before I add them to a lengthy production. For me this seems to work out better tackling the difficult scenes first in some portions before putting them all together in a lengthy film.

I'm sure other members will have a workflow they prefer as well.
Best Regards......George
The following user(s) said Thank You: DoctorZen
06 Jun 2019 00:44 #3

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • Posts: 57
  • Karma: 3
  • Thank you received: 13

Replied by HawaiianEye on topic Just a concept question about "Start all new projects with these settings"....

Thank You Doc.!
I watched a bit on Cinematic drone footage, by a nice Scottish guy/ couple.
He was showing how our eye is used to 24fps, by having his wife do "Jumping Jacks" 60fps vs 24 fps.
60fps was choppy and stuttery. 24 looked smooth.
I guess I came away from that, with the idea, all my videos should end up closest to 24 fps.





So, my concepts on these things are shaped by the last smart person I listened to.
(Which, by the way, is how most people get to have an opinion on anything! LOL!)
06 Jun 2019 04:58 #4

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • Posts: 57
  • Karma: 3
  • Thank you received: 13

Replied by HawaiianEye on topic Just a concept question about "Start all new projects with these settings"....

Much appreciated George!!
Your output into this community is well noted!
I am an "enthusiast" in many things I do.
I depend on experts to help me do these things better.
I am making little videos for clients, and I want them to LOOK the best possible,
with the non professional video equipment I have.
I have always been a believer in:
"It's not the brand of the tools the artist works with.
It's the level of skill the artist has in working in that particular medium."
Thus, is there a place you showcase some of your videos?
I just started making multi media vids, and perhaps you could give me some tips/ideas,
after viewing some of mine?
Previously, I made real estate slide shows using still images.
Now I have a drone, and a hand held gimbal, besides a camera.
Movie Studio 16 is a very capable editing suite!
Now, I am diving into it, but I need to also need to keep in mind, not only how to use it,
but how to make a pleasing, looking product.
perhaps we could swap links to our vids?
06 Jun 2019 05:21 #5

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • Posts: 415
  • Karma: 30
  • Thank you received: 210

Replied by ericlnz on topic Just a concept question about "Start all new projects with these settings"....

HawaiianEye wrote: Thank You Doc.!

He was showing how our eye is used to 24fps, by having his wife do "Jumping Jacks" 60fps vs 24 fps.
60fps was choppy and stuttery. 24 looked smooth.


I would have expected it to be the other way around. I find PAL 25fps videos that have movement close or fast across the screen jerky whereas 50fps are smooth. As for our eyes being used to 24fps, that's a strange statement. Do you have a link to where you saw this?
06 Jun 2019 09:40 #6

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • Posts: 802
  • Karma: 46
  • Thank you received: 567

Replied by Eagle Six on topic Just a concept question about "Start all new projects with these settings"....

HawaiianEye wrote: I just started making multi media vids, and perhaps you could give me some tips/ideas,
after viewing some of mine?
Previously, I made real estate slide shows using still images.
Now I have a drone, and a hand held gimbal, besides a camera.
Movie Studio 16 is a very capable editing suite!
Now, I am diving into it, but I need to also need to keep in mind, not only how to use it,
but how to make a pleasing, looking product.
perhaps we could swap links to our vids?


Most of the videos/films I make are not public. However I do have a couple I have posted to youtube and will share with you. Please keep in mind these have nothing to do with the type of videos you are making, so they may not be of much help. Also I make no claim of being an expert at movie making.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9EogPqoSHz4&t=34s 2015 Ford Mustang GT Premium Performance - nickname: MATRIX. This is a short 6:48 client type 'Show Case' video that I promised to shoot for my daughter. Like other Show Case films, this also includes 2 longer versions which include additional footage and information and is used by the client for private viewing. This was shot at 29.970 fps and included some rather nasty footage from time constrains and unavoidable issues that often occur that got way beyond my control.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPIzhZnP7uU Ride 2017. This film was done primarily for one client which also included a couple of his friends. It is another Show Case featuring riders and sportbikes. It was shot with the GH4/Atomos Ninja Flame and some GoPro footage, etc. all at 59.940 fps.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qe7_gi95N9w Vietnam 1966-1967. This is a very specific audience type production. I shot all the footage on a consumner grade Super 8mm camera and Kpdak Instamatic. The film was digitized to 1080HD 29.970 fps. I took some time to process as the first steps were to improve the quality of poorly storage film. The more I worked on it the more it started to look like some Hollywood production that had a terrible plastic look. I decided making it look good was the look I was after, so I started over, made some improvements, but oretty much wanted it to look like what exactly it is. The entire film is silent, I added the music tracks, and sound effects as best as I remember them. I did this for a few close military buddies, my family and of course myself. When I posted it to Youtube w years ago, I had no idea I would get over 220,000 views to date.

When I review these videos from time to time, looking back I think how much better I could have made them if I would have had better equipment and the skills I have today. And that is exactly how we should feel, as we grow and learn and progress into the future.

If you would like to share, I would be more that happy to view your work. Again, I don't consider myself an expert and certainly not a critic, but like everyone else I have opinions and in the spirit of helping I will share them.
Best Regards......George
06 Jun 2019 12:05 #7

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • Posts: 57
  • Karma: 3
  • Thank you received: 13

Replied by HawaiianEye on topic Just a concept question about "Start all new projects with these settings"....

Holy SH-NIKES George!
I believe that a real artist, ( with substance ), must know their craft, in order to consistently produce
whatever medium they lay down. I used to work at a guitar factory, and there were inlay artists who produced
incredible art, that could not be faked.
Your output, shows the stratospheric level of craft you have, in order to produce what your mind conceptualizes. (ART)!
I am amazed! Now, I want to hang with you for a bit, and "Talk story", as we say in Hawaii.
This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Maybe we can chat by phone at a time when we're both awake.. Hawaii time vs what, Mountain time? LOL!
I give you the option to email me your phone. NP, if you opt out..

I've been involved in various group forums over the years.
In many cases, it truly seems to boil down to a version of the game, "King of the Hill".
In the case of photography, or music production, there are those that become equipment snobs.
They know everything about a product, a process, etc. and they stake out a high place within the forum,
in order to impress upon others, their dominance.
You gotta' wonder..... "If they know so much, where's their ART?"
Some Forum "camera guys", are know-it-all's, but their photography is just OK, or nonexistent.
They actually live in the forums, and need to defend their spot in the pecking order.
Well, you prove who you are and the depth of your advice, by your artistic output!!!! You are 200 proof!

Dr. Zen has been the only Vegas expert I've officially consulted since MS12.
This website really should be attached to any Vegas product offered to the public!
Thanks to everybody who gives of their time and energy, to help us get around those hurtles we bump into!
The following user(s) said Thank You: Eagle Six
07 Jun 2019 08:05 #8

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • Posts: 57
  • Karma: 3
  • Thank you received: 13

Replied by HawaiianEye on topic Just a concept question about "Start all new projects with these settings"....

George,
1st off, I'm 65, and semi retired. Now I get to work at whatever I want!
I'm a photographer.
And Maui has a glut of World Class photographers. Just like Paris, NY, SF, London etc.
It's like me playing "Deliverance" on a banjo in the front porch, and then, Pink Floyd starts their set....
I know my place in the food chain. But I'm not competing. Just having a good time..
I purchased a drone, studied, and flew to Oahu from Maui to take the part 107 cert test. Passed at 92%. Whew!
I figured it would up my slideshow vids. My skill level is probs... definitely not pro, that's for sure. But, I get paid!
Recently, I purchased a gimbal for smartphone. Yes, I'm small peanuts!!
But I bleed out of everything I have, what ever I can get out of it.
The 1st vid, is real estate. Still images, gimbal and drone. 1st multimedia attempt.
It is nothing compared to pro vid productions, for 9 mil condos.
It's mock 4K.



I'll send 2nd one next time..
Thanks, Buddy! Coe

Nikon D500
Mavic Pro platinum
DJI Osmo mobile 2
Samsung S7 edge
MS Plat16
The following user(s) said Thank You: Eagle Six
07 Jun 2019 08:37 #9

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • Posts: 57
  • Karma: 3
  • Thank you received: 13

Replied by HawaiianEye on topic Just a concept question about "Start all new projects with these settings"....

Hello ericlnz!
Yeah, over time my memory blends different things I saw into a hodgepodge of misinfo!
What I said about 24/25fps being what we're used to seeing is true, but I mixed different YouTube videos I saw all together!
If you have the time, please check out this 8+ min video, and let us know what you think! :)
There's a bit of reasoning and history.
It explains why even modern day attempts to use faster frame rates than 24/25, in Cinema, have failed.
And as it progresses, It makes this conclusion firm.

The "Jumping Jacks" vid is also very informative, but it only reveals why motion blur is important.
I mixed it up with 24 vs 60fps.
Aloha, Coe
07 Jun 2019 09:26 #10

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Moderators: DoctorZen
Time to create page: 0.121 seconds

Make a Donation

Movie Studio Zen is a fully independent site and all our content is free. You can help support this site by making a PayPal donation.

MSZ Social Media

youtube  facebook  twitter

MSZ Security

MovieStudioZen.com

Copyright © 2019 MovieStudioZen.com.
All rights reserved.

Back to top