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Solved Progressive/interlaced option not selectable for some Sony render templates

  • Patek
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Hi,
I am using Movie Studio Platinum (TRIAL) version 13.0 Build 955 64 bit on
a Windows 7 64 bit system.

When I render a video then I experience a problem with some of the render templates.
Input video: AVCHD 1920x1080, 25p, 24 Mbps from a Sony Camcorder.
Project settings adjusted to the input file.
Make Movie/Save it to my harddrive/Advanced options/Sony AVC/MVC

When I select the template "AVCHD 1920x1080-50i" and "customize template"
then a window opens and the "field order" is greyed out.
When I change the framerate to 25 fps PAL (or 29,97 NTSC) then the greyed-out "field order" changes to "upper field first".
There is no way to adjust it to "none (progressive scan)".
The same inability to set progressive scan 25 fps applies to the templates
"Sony AVC/MVC Blu-Ray 1920x1080" when customizing the template for the "video formats" in the custom setting window: "Blu-ray AVC" and "AVCHD".

So I wonder:
Is this a regular behaviour? (This would be strange since AVCHD 25p exists, so why not have it as render output?)
Is this a limitation to the TRIAL version?
Is this a limitation to Movie Studio and only selectable in Vegas 13?

Thank you for your help!
by Patek

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Hi Patek.

The only restriction on Sony 'trial' version is, some will place a water mark on the render, some will not, and they expire in 30 days, other than that they are full versions. Your trial version is working properly.

AVCHD is like Bluray, the standards are interlaced, with the exception of 24p. If your render is going to go on a Bluray disc, the authoring program to burn the disc (and the Bluray player) will want interlaced video for PAL and NTSC, again with the exception of 24p.

If you want to view your video on your computer or online, you will want progressive, so you may want to try the 'Internet 1920x1080-30p' template and then change the frame rate to 25p. Hope this helps.....
Best Regards......George
Last Edit:24 May 2016 18:59 by Eagle Six
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  • Patek
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Thanks, George, for your reply.

The output of my Sony HDR 810 is AVCHD with 24p, 25p, 50p or 50i. Also, wikipedia states
for AVCHD that the specification AVCHD 2.0 includes the progressive format. So, I think that 25p should
be possible as AVCHD output, somehow.

I assumed that since the input is AVCHD I get the best quality when I also output AVCHD - given that the Mbps is the same for output and input.
Maybe this is wrong.

Taking all this into account, I will leave AVCHD rendering aside and will follow the suggestion to render as 'internet'.

Concerning your comment on the Bluray rendering, I have found now some discussions on the internet about it.
I will read this to find out what would be the best camera setting (25p, 50p, 50i) to produce output for Bluray.
Since I am new to video editing, I have to learn how to work with progressive/interlaced.

Thanks again!
Last Edit:09 Apr 2016 06:21 by Patek
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Hi Patek,

During your research "to learn how to work with progressive/interlaced", I hope it doesn't drive you as crazy as it has done to me!!!

Most of my production goes on Bluray or DVD, with some going to YouTube. If we are filming for a specific delivery format, such as Bluray or DVD, we probably are better to film interlace. With the exception of 24p. If we are going to film for release on YouTube (or any other online viewed on a computer) we are better off filming in progressive. Bluray/DVD (older TV's) likes interlaced and computers like progressive. Although the viewing on a TV can be through a Bluray/DVD player, or more recently directly on the TV from a thumbdrive or streaming service, in which case many newer TV's will display progressive fine.

I think the trick is when we film for a verity of delivery formats such as Bluray and YouTube! I have gone from interlaced to filming in progressive in either 30p or 24p (I'm in the NTSC world). On my TV and Bluray system the video look just as good with the original material being progressive. Then for the YouTube renders I don't have to contend with de-interlacing the original material.

My main camera doesn't do 60p, otherwise I would film everything in 60p, leaving the 60p frame rate for YouTube videos, and changing the frame rate to 60i for Bluray. The only time I see a difference, and then not much, is for fast moving subjects.

We know, as a general rule, no matter what the codec, we can not make the original footage better than when it was filmed. At the same time, we all have a common goal to not loose any quality, or loose as little as possible. We can use a lossless, or visually lossless codec to render, but if we post to places like YouTube, it will get reprocessed by their rules and some of the quality will be lost. Not much we can do about it.

As far as I know, you are going to loose some quality every time you render to AVCHD. So, depending on what you do with that render, you may want to go with a different codec that is lossless or visually lossless to maintain the best from your original footage. They are going to be big files and there would be little to gain if you posted to YouTube, or other online sites.

I use a visually lossless codec to make intermediate files which are then used on the timeline. When the production is finished, I then render to the delivery format appropriate for the destination. If going to Bluray I use the highest quality Bluray template. If going to DVD, the highest quality DVD template. If going to YouTube, a high quality h.264/mp4 template. Not the highest, because I'm on a limited monthly data plan (I'm out in the sticks with wireless service!). If I wasn't restricted with an internet plan, I would probably render higher quality for YouTube. But, again, YouTube reprocesses whatever you upload.

Regardless of what you choose as a render codec, the higher the bit rate, usually the higher the quality (also the larger the rendered file). Some codec allow you to change the bit rate, others are fixed.

I hope some of this may be helpful.
Best Regards......George
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  • Patek
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Thanks for sharing your experience. I think that learning about progressive/interlaced will be step by step for me.

Btw, I have purchased now Vegas Pro 13. Being aware of the discussion about a discontinuation of this software,
I still think that this software is a good option for me - and the price was right :)

So, I guess that I will be posting more in this forum in future ...
by Patek
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Hi Patek,

Congratulations on the purchase of Vegas Pro 13. I think you will find the added features an advantage. In addition to the many additional features, I find the video scopes for color correction and the added power of scripts very helpful. You also now have a couple Sony .mxf codecs which you may use to make intermediate files with less loss of quality. If you are not already aware, you can also use the Cineform codec and the Avid DNxHD codec to maintain a higher level of rendering (although these two will also work in Movie Studio Platinum).

The Cineform codec is available by downloading and installing the free GoPro Studio software. And the Avid DNxHD codec is a free download from Avid. Cineform would go in an .avi container and the DNxHD codec will go in a .mov container. From my limited experience, there is little difference, or advantage, of Cineform/DNxHD over the Sony .mxf, unless you are working with others who work on a MAC or in Avid.

As you have read, there is a lot of talk about Sony moving to their new Catalyst line and leaving Vegas to wither, however there is also talk of Sony working on Vegas Pro 14 and the release delayed due various complications. None of what I have read has been substantiated, except the part that Sony has never disclosed pre-release information. If they do the Vegas Pro 14 release it will probably be in around September, just my guess!
Best Regards......George

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  • Patek
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Eagle Six wrote: Congratulations on the purchase of Vegas Pro 13.

Thanks :)

If you are not already aware, you can also use the Cineform codec and the Avid DNxHD codec to maintain a higher level of rendering (although these two will also work in Movie Studio Platinum).

Actually, this is new to me. There are a lot of "unknown unknowns" to me, i.e. I am not aware of what I do not know, yet :wink:
by Patek

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Patek wrote: Actually, this is new to me. There are a lot of "unknown unknowns" to me, i.e. I am not aware of what I do not know, yet :wink:


So true.....I agree. We don't know what we don't know! I only know what I think I know, and then come to find out I discover that some of what I think I know, I really don't!!! And, then there are times when I have to re-learn those things I thought I knew, because I didn't pay enough attention the first time I learned them!!!!!

Anyway, we should all keep learning the best we can. I have found that 'old age' is an impediment to learning, which I strive to overcome :cheer:


BTW: In the future if you would like to explore the DNxHD or Cineform codec, this would be a good start........Here is a link to John Rofrano, if you want to get the DNxHD codec and template.
John Rofrano -- DNxHD Template

You can setup in a similar way a custom template using the Cineform codec. First download the free GoPro Studio software which will install the Cineform codec.
GoPro Studio App
You can setup a custom template using the Cineform codec by first selecting the Render As > Output Format 'Video for Windows (*.avi)', then the template that matches your project the closet, then 'Customize Template', then change anything you need, as well as, 'Video Format:' select 'CineForm Codec' from the list, then click on 'Configure...', then select 'Encode Format' as 'YUV 4:2:2' and 'Encoding Quality' to either 'High' or 'Filmscan 1'. I use Filmscan 1, but High is probably adequate.
Best Regards......George
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  • Patek
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Thanks for the info.
Have a nice day!
by Patek

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