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Solved Vegas Pro render to include audio at 24 bit

  • Mosaic
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Replied by Mosaic on topic Vegas Pro render to include audio at 24 bit

Posted 03 Jun 2017 02:09 #21
Thanks for the info. Its all new to me :-) I will give MKVMerge a check.
by Mosaic

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Replied by Eagle Six on topic Vegas Pro render to include audio at 24 bit

Posted 03 Jun 2017 02:50 #22
I think I have the results you need.

I downloaded and installed MKVToolNix (I'll provide the link shortly).

I used the Vegas2Handbrake render to an mkv video, as you already have, not concerned with the audio included.

I used Vegas to also render out a wav file in 44.1/24 bit.

I started up the MKVToolNix GUI program.

Then added the mkv video file and deselected the audio.

Then added the wav file.

Named the output file.

Then I added to the job queue and started the multiplexing.

What I ended up with is a mkv file in h.264 and audio listed as 44.1/24 bit in MediaInfo.

The problem I have is......I don't have any original source video with 44.1/24 (rather 48/16) so I'm not sure of the sound quality. In addition with my old hearing, basic sound system, even if I had 44.1/24 source I'm not sure I would know the difference. You on the other hand can tell the difference and have the original source.

So the short of the project is.......Use Vegas to render out the video (it doesn't even need to include audio, and could be Sony AVC, or MainConcepts AVC, although mkv from Handbrake may be better video quality as you have already confirmed), then render out separate audio in wav (or another format) with 44.1 sub sample and 24 bit. Merge them together using MKVToolNix GUI program. That's it!!

There was a small learning curve in the MKVToolNix GUI, but not that bad, although I haven't explored all the options available within this application, just pushed through it until I got the results. Hope this helps.
Best Regards......George

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Replied by Eagle Six on topic Vegas Pro render to include audio at 24 bit

Posted 03 Jun 2017 02:54 #23
Here is a the link to download the MKVToolNix. I downloaded the Win64 bit version.....

VideoHelp MKVToolNix 12.0.0 download

Note: If there are any members with a simpler, better solution, please chime in.
Best Regards......George
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Replied by Mosaic on topic Vegas Pro render to include audio at 24 bit

Posted 03 Jun 2017 16:49 #24
Thanks George, I gave this a try.

And it worked perfectly! The video quality is good. And now the audio quality is aswell, I could not distinguish between the original audio and the one that was part of the video soundtrack.

Phew -- now I can concentrate on actually editing the video and getting the final file done.

Thanks so much for sticking with me on this project. Really appreciate the help.
Last Edit:03 Jun 2017 21:19 by Mosaic
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Replied by Eagle Six on topic Vegas Pro render to include audio at 24 bit

Posted 03 Jun 2017 23:35 #25
Happy to hear for have a workflow that will allow you to finish your project within the specifications required. Sometimes these projects take a few extra steps to fulfill our needs and we have to make some not so easy alternatives, but sometimes the effort and results are more rewarding.
Best Regards......George

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Replied by Mosaic on topic Vegas Pro render to include audio at 24 bit

Posted 06 Jun 2017 04:46 #26
One more question as I move on with this project. I've got 6 music tracks, all of them in a different bpm ---- as far as I am aware Vegas doesn't allow multiple bpm in one file, so I'm going to make 6 Vegas files, and render each using the 'Sony XAVC / XAVC S (*.mxf/*.mp4)' template. Then I'm going to import all of them into one new Vegas file with each joining exactly, then render out again using the using the 'Sony XAVC / XAVC S (*.mxf/*.mp4)' template. Then use the MKV toolkit to import one audio file where i have joined all 6 audio tracks together.

Question is really: when I import 6 x .mxf files again into a new project and render them all again, will there be any degradation in quality? Or is this a lossless method?

The XAVC Intra template does not seem to have any quality control, (can only choose frame size and frame rate).

I don't know is there a more effective method which will maintain better quality than this? Or is it sounding right?
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Replied by Eagle Six on topic Vegas Pro render to include audio at 24 bit

Posted 06 Jun 2017 06:19 #27
Hi Mosaic,

I'm a bit confused and this audio/music thing is over my head! However, if you are rendering out the music tracks to retain the 44.1/24 bit I would stick with the .wav format as it is lossless and provide the 44.1/24 you require. Being lossless, you will not loose any audio quality rendering several times.

So, unless I have missed something (certainly possible because I don't understand your choice of render templates), I would render the video once in *.mxf, as you have stated, but render out separate audio files using the appropriate .wav template to keep the 44.1/24 bit, and then bring the wav's back into Vegas to combine them together and render again in wav.

I think a better tool than Vegas Pro for the audio may be Acid, if you have that. I got Acid as a combo deal, but have never had an opportunity or need to explore it.

Sorry I can't be of more help on this one. Out of curiosity are you stacking these music tracks (as in mixing) or playing them one after the other?
Best Regards......George

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Replied by Mosaic on topic Vegas Pro render to include audio at 24 bit

Posted 14 Jun 2017 05:35 #28
Sorry my bad description.

I meant that I have 6 Vegas files that I want to bring together as one. As I'm going to use MKV ToolNix for the audio, my issue is how best to bring 6 Sony Vegas files together as one. I guess my original idea was wrong, as I can import one Vegas file into another can I? The result I want is one single Vegas file which is a combination of 6 smaller files, which I will then render out as one .MXF file and then use MKV ToolNix to bring in audio .

--- One other question from earlier discussion. I noticed I can bring a .MXF file directly into MKV ToolNix, bring in some audio, and then it multiplexes out a .MKV file. Why do I need the additional step with Handbrake?
by Mosaic

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Replied by Eagle Six on topic Vegas Pro render to include audio at 24 bit

Posted 15 Jun 2017 01:40 #29
When you say '6 Vegas files' I'm assuming you have 6 Vegas Pro project files (.veg). I think the quickest method would be to open the first project file in the sequence.

Then go to 'File' > 'Import' > 'Media'. Then browse to find the 2nd project file you wish to add and select it. This will place the 2nd project (.veg) file in your 'Project Media' bin. Drag this .veg file to the timeline where you want it.

Repeat this process until all 6 Vegas projects have been added. Save this 'master' project file (with unique name) and then render it to an .mxf file that you will then bring into MKV ToolNix to multiplex with your audio files.

Mosaic wrote: --- One other question from earlier discussion. I noticed I can bring a .MXF file directly into MKV ToolNix, bring in some audio, and then it multiplexes out a .MKV file. Why do I need the additional step with Handbrake?


You are correct, if you are going to bring the audio directly into MKV ToolNix, without it going through Vegas, and the video out of Vegas Pro will match your audio in time length. So the workflow (at least if I understand it correctly) would be.....

- Bring the original video source media into Vegas Pro and perform the editing, etc. Save the project. Repeat as necessary.
- Bring the Vegas Pro projects into one master project and render to MXF.
- Bring the master video rendered MXF file into MKV ToolNix, bring the audio files into MKV ToolNix, multiplex for the final production file.

If I have this workflow correct, and the results of video quality and audio quality are satisfactory following this workflow, then there is no need for Handbrake I can see. I hope I have this correct, if not please point out what I have misunderstood.
Best Regards......George

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Replied by Mosaic on topic Vegas Pro render to include audio at 24 bit

Posted 15 Jun 2017 05:07 #30
Thank you again. I think you have understood me correctly, and what you say makes total sense.

Only thing is now, I got some problems with importing .MKF files into MKV ToolNix --- it starts off the multiplex ok, then it stops, gives an error message :


--- Errors emitted by job 'Multiplexing to file "Perception Part I .mkv" in directory "F:\Video"' started on 2017-06-14 21:39:16 ---
'F:\Video\Perception Part I .MXF' track 0: mkvmerge encountered broken or unparsable data in this AVC/h.264 video track. Either your file is damaged (which mkvmerge cannot cope with yet) or this is a bug in mkvmerge itself.

Not sure why there should be any damaged file. I then went to Handbrake and did the MKV conversion and it worked. It did look like the MKV from Handbrake was a little less quality than the MKF ... and its file size was MUCH smaller - is there a reason why MKV file size is lower, is it normal, not just meaning it lower quality? (MKF prior to conversion was 4.5GB and MKV was only 250MB.)
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