Solved differences between .veg files and final result

Hi,

I have an issue that I never addressed? I've been using Vegas Products now for the last 15 years starting with version 6 of Sony Vegas Studio. I sometimes notice that parts of my videos, not all, but a few do have some flickering or shimmering for lack of better words. For example I have a text on a credit roll at the end of my last project. Fonts in dark blue on yellow background, all the letters are like ''blinking'' if it's like Vegas rendered the Preview screen on Preview quarter for a better expression. The same with a few scenes in my video. Is there a problem with my rendering settings? I do notice differences between the working file (.veg) and the final result, I don't understand? Since my projects still go to DVD, I render in the .mpeg format. I'm using VP 16 with a pretty powerful machine....help would be needed on this matter...thanks!

I noticed that you don't accept .mpeg files as an example!?

Michel

What is your source material (4K, HD or SD)? and what are your project properties.

Your problem could be the result of downgrading to DVD, which is only Standard Definition and interlaced.

Hi Eric,

I'm using a Sony Handycam hdr-xr500, it's an old machine but reliable. I'm using the .mts format as am output format from the camera at 1920x1080. My .veg file when using the Best Full Preview screen represents a flat no sparkle or shimmer on edges trees, persons, etc for example. I really notices it today with letters flashing in my last project yesterday.

I just realized that as a test I rendered my project in an mp4 format. So my 67 minute project took 75 minutes to render and fits on a DVD. Why transfer on a DVD, well it's our last trip in Mexico that I want to share with friends who accompanied us there. Rendering the same file in the .mp4 format took 4h20min. at 8.4gigs., try to fit that on a DVD?

Yes, you are right, there is no blinking, shimmering or sparkling on my letters I must add. I recall Derek telling me that .mpeg was the best format for a DVD. Unless there is a better format and more practical tan the .mp4 to fit on a DVD? Do you know of that Eric?

Firstly, to my knowledge, mp4 is not part of the DVD or Blu-ray specs. For DVDs your mp4 will get recompressed by DVDA to mpeg2. It will also get reduced from 1920x1080 square pixels to 720x576 stretched pixels (assuming you are PAL). So three quarters of the original image is lost plus it will get interlaced even if your original source was progressive. This is the problem. This downgrading causes the flickering of sharp lines, fine detail, titles etc. It looks great in your preview because you are previewing 1920x1080.

You have three options:

1 - Abandon DVDs. Give your friends a 1080 mp4 copy on a thumb drive assuming they have TVs that play USB drives
2 - Burn the 1080 mp4 to a DVD as a data disc. But they need to have a player that will play it. Most Blu-ray players that play USB thumbdrives will play a data disc
3 - Try to get better quality when downgrading to DVD. This was discussed in another post on this forum recently

From memory I think Derek's advice was no.1

Hi Eric,

Thanks for the time and suggestions Eric. On your third option you wrote ''Try to get better quality when downgrading to DVD. This was discussed in another post on this forum recently.'' since there were no references to this option, I typed Best render settings in the search window ans encountered many subjects written by Derek and others. Derek mentions to go back to the MSP 14 Tutorial for the Properties/render settings. I did this to be sure I was ok and I was.

If you have an actual reference to that part of your suggestion I would more than appreciate it.

So what I tested and finally did, was to use to render Sony MVC/AAC mp4 with the Internet NVdia option. I was using that option a couple of years ago but there was a glitch, Vegas was always crashing/freezing. I think Magix fixed it. So I did use this option this morning. My a little more than an hour project took 2h.25min. to render with a total of 6.3 gigs. Naturally that cannot fit on a DVD. But the quality is so much better.

If you say that option 3 would permit me to have a better DVD quality than the standard Program Stream NTSC (for me) Wide screen (mpeg) I will gladly use it so to maintain the DVD format. But in the end, if there is nothing there to insure the quality or close to it, that I just found with the recent mp4 render, I'll have to let go on the DVD and simply use the mp4 file on a thumb drive and insert it in the TV.

Thanks again for the your time Eric.

NB: If you'ere good with images and the way to manage them within the Event Pan/Crop tool, pleaese let me know, I have a question or two on that subject...thanks.


Michel

Michel

Hi,

Follow up to my yesterday's message. I just had to stop the render of my project as I told you using the NVidia option because it did freeze three times at exactly the 66% mark. So I am now rendering without the NVdia option and I did pass the mark where it has froze before. Much, much slower but reliable. Does anyone encounter this problem? Have a solution?

The weird part is that I was able to render the whole project of an hour five minutes. And because I'm splitting the project 60/40, it freezes on part 1 where it went through without any glitch yesterday?

Thanks

Michel

I cannot help with your Nvidia problem. Presumably Derek is unwell but let's hope he's back soon.

As for your DVD quality problem the following is my personal experiences. I found that Vegas did a poor job of downgrading 1080 to SD mpg2 as you have found. To achieve a reasonable result the image needs to be softened slightly using Gaussian Blur or other FX. BUT the softening needs to be done as a Media FX to every clip. Vegas then appears on rendering to apply the softening BEFORE it reduces the image size. If you apply softening as an Event, Track or Output FX Vegas appears to reduce the image size before applying FX with poor results.

However there is another way and that is to use DVDA to downsize. It is usually recommended to export from Vegas with a file that DVDA will take without recompression. But following a post I found on the Vegas forum this is a situation where this isn't the best because DVDA appears to do a better job than Vegas when downsizing 1080 to SD. Maybe it applies softening? So on the rare occasions I need a DVD I use my 1080 Blu-ray file exports from Vegas and use these in DVDA to make a DVD. Recompression takes time but I found I achieved a more acceptable result.

So take your mp4 1080 files and use them in your DVDA DVD project. However a few things to note:
1 - You can adjust the bitrate in DVDA to ensure you get your project to fit
2 - In each source files Media Properties, under General - Reduce interlace flicker - On
3 - In each source files Media Properties, under General - Crop and Adjust - Match Output Aspect (right click on window crop image). This avoids narrow black lines at the edges as SD and HD widescreen aren't exactly the same shape.

Let us know how you get on.

Hi Eric,

Thanks again for all the time you're putting into this situation, I really appreciate it. I do hope that Derek is getting better. I am aware of his health issues. You might nor know but I'm french speaking from a french province (Quebec) in Canada. So I'm not to familiar with some terms. You are referring to DVDA and DVD. I have no idea of what is DVDA. A quick visit to Google makes me understand that it is used for music? If that is the case I'm not then to familiar with your final explanation since I never used that media. I think I will continue with the settings you suggested with the .mp4 environment and deal with the splitting of projects on DVD when they arrive.

A final note Eric. I just had an ad from Vegas when opening my Vegas Pro 16. At 149$ US, it's a pretty good deal, seems like it's better than on your site. I'm using version 16, would you consider upgrading?

Thanks...great help...It won't let me attach a file???

Michel

Just a side note... DVDA is (VEGAS) DVD Architect, the Blu-ray and DVD Disc™ Authoring (and Burning) software, currently from MAGIX.

DVDA is DVD Architect. The disc making software that comes with Vegas Pro (other than edit) and Vegas Movie Studio. I assumed you were familiar with it if you had been creating DVD discs.

I'm a VMS user so cannot comment on Pro but updating usually brings benefits. As for the price if you click on the link at the top of this forum and follow through you will end up with the same update $199 price. I guess Derek hasn't updated yet to reflect the current offer. Also if you link through here Derek gets well deserved credit of some kind.