Solved 4K editing

Hi Mike

That was very useful info. I see that you are using i7-5820K/32GB RAM. Do you find that that is adequate for 4K editing on Vegas Pro 14 as that Is what I was proposing to install in a new computer - with an Nvidia GTX 1070 or GTX1060 Card. Would an i7-5960X be a better CPU?

Cheers

Peter

Hi Peter,

The only 4K footage I currently use, is from my GoPro Hero 3+ Black. Still trying to decide on getting the newer Hero 5 Black, or just going with one of the Sony FDR-AXx3 models. Plus, with Panasonic just releasing information at CES about the new GH5, it seems to be a very "Mouth-Watering" piece of gear! But, back to your question...using my GoPro footage, I have actually followed the Good Doctor's advice on converting the footage within the GoPro Studio app, then bring it into a timeline. Also have done the "proxy" within Vegas or Movie Studio, and either way, just have to let it do it's own thing. Working with the footage after that, at least on a 1080p timeline, isn't bad. The processor you mentioned does a great job for what I need it to do, so you have to take that with a "grain of salt" for what you may need. I also have the i7-5930K in another machine, which is basically the same processor, just extra pcie lanes, and I have it over-clocked more heavily, and it does fine with pretty much everything as well. Think now it is more of an issue with the type of hard drive/ssd, so have purchased one of those "uber" Intel 750 drives to try out. The 5960x is an "8" core beast, but I have not tried one personally, so I cannot truthfully say one way or the other about its' performance. For graphics cards, I favor the Intel/Nvidia side of things, due more to other things I do, but acknowledge that AMD cards tend to be better for the Vegas family these days. I am looking at purchasing a GTX 1070 for the machine in my profile, but not specifically for video work. I know that George "Eagle Six" from our forum recently built a new machine based on the newer i7-6800k (I think that was the processor he used). He may have an opinion on its performance for you. If you are building a new machine for 4k, that would be the processor I would start out with Trying to find reliable "YouTube" videos to see recommendations always seem to go for "Gaming" machines. One that I would also recommend to check out a build on was one I saw by "Happy Fox Productions". He even has a recent video after using his newly built computer for a year, and talks about how it has worked for him. Like George and Doctor Zen, I am also trying different editors (just in case Vegas goes South on us) using DaVinci Resolve, but more for me is HitFilm 4 (thinking about purchasing the new 2017 pro version). Both of these programs utilize the GPU for a lot more tasks than Vegas does. Just remember, if you plan to edit and render 4K footage, be prepared to "Walk Away from the Machine" once you hit that render button...it is going to take some time depending on the length of your project!

Now, if my brother would only pay me back, I might be able to get that 8-Core beasty!

Good Luck!

Mike "The Chief" O'Sullivan

Hi Peter,

On the heels of Mike's previous post, here are the specs of my recent build........

System Specs......
Corsair Obsidian Series 450D ATX Mid Tower
Asus X99-A II LGA 2011-v3, Intel X99 SATA 6 Gb/s USB 3.1/3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard, overclocked 20%
Intel Core i7-6800K 15M Broadwell-E, 6 core 3.4 GHz LGA 2011-v3
64GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200
Corsair Hydro Series H110i GTX 280mm Extreme Performance Liquid CPU Cooler
MSI Radeon R9 390 DirectX 12 8GB Video Card
Corsair RMx Series RM750X 740W 80 Plus Gold power pack
Corsair Neutron XT 2.5 480GB SATA III SSD 'C' drive
Western Digital Black 6TB 7200 RPM SATA 6Bb/s 128MB Cache 3.5 data drive
Western Digital 1TB 7200 RPM SATA working drive
Bluray Disc burner drive
2x 1080p monitors
Microsoft Window 7 Professional
Vegas Pro 13
Resolve 12.5

This box will process 4K, however it is not optimized for that purpose. If I were to build another box specifically for 4K processing, I would change a few parts such as, instead of the 'Asus X99-A II LGA' motherboard I would go with a full X-99. Instead of the 'Intel Core i7-6800K' (which is a 6 core) I would use the Intel i7-5960x which is an 8 core chip and then match those with at least 32 gb (preferably 64 gb) fastest RAM and the fastest SSD drives that would optimize the PCIe bus, along with at minimum the AMD R9-490X GPU. I would also put all that in a full tower case which offers more room for cooling and expansion of the system. With that said, I'm happy with my current system and it all came in at about $2,200 USD.

If you elect to go with a system similar to mine and are going to 4K processing across the board, you may find using intermediates files helpful, which in my experience have worked better for me than Vegas Pro built proxy files, your mileage may be different. That is by getting a faster and smoother preview playback, depending on how many and how heavy the FX's applied, which ultimately can bring almost any PC to it's knees for heavy composting and FX work. For creating intermediates, I use Resolve 12.5 as it is faster rendering, can be used in batch mode, offers easy edit trimming (sometimes I do not trim), and the use of LUTs. Then I bring those into Sony Vegas Pro 13.

To my knowledge, the common theory is to put more into the system (motherboard, CPU, RAM, Bus, and fast drives) for both preview and rendering, leaning on the GPU for preview improvement, but relying on the strength of the system for rendering without the help of a GPU. Using a GPU to reduce render times is at best limited by the NLE application, and codec.

For example, in certain underpowered computers, such as I used to have, I could reduce the render time significantly using an old GTX 460 GPU for 1080p source media when rendering in the AVC format. However, it was at a small cost of reduced quality and generally larger file size than I could obtain using Handbrake. And this older PC could not handle any 4K source media, and was agonizingly slow with 1080p. My new box will play 4K ProRes, DNxHX and CineForm 4K at full speed Best. With heavy composting and FX, it will play preview Best with ProRes 4K after reducing to CineForm 1080p, and then the CineForm 1080p can be replaced before rendering with the original ProRes 4K source to render out 4K.

As Mike suggest, regardless of the box, when rendering 4K be ready to "Walk Away from the Machine". I think even 8 core boxes take a while to render out full 4K. On the other hand, most of my videos are going to Bluray, or 1080p for my Sony Flat screen TV, or YouTube. So, although I shoot (Panasonic GH4/Atomos Ninja Flame) in 4K, most everything is rendered down to 1080p.