Solved Format/codec questions I need to settle before diving into complex project

Hi all,

I am about to start my first "major" project in MSP 13. It will combine various kinds of raw source footage:

-- HD footage from my Lumix camera -- usually AVCHD (up to 1920 x 1080 @ 50fps) or sometimes MP4 (up to 1920 x 1080 @ 25fps)

-- *.mp4 clips from stock agencies (I won't assume they all use the sem codec)

-- *mp4s downloade dfrom Youtube (with permission), using a downloader which uses its own codec

-- *.mov files to a very specific format. I render files to this format when I want to preserve alpha transparancy. I discussed this in another post. The format is detailed here :




Now, I'm pretty newb-ish, but the more I read about video formats, sub-formats, codecs etc., the more it occurs to me that I really should get the formatting and the associated MSP13 project settings in order at the very outset. This is because ultimately I want my final project to look good on a big TV, as well as on the web.

There is quite likely to be many re-renderings of files -- for example, compositing one of the stock clips together with one of the *.mov clips, editing it, applying additional FX, then rendering this as a new file, which in turn might later be used for something else, and then re-rendered.

To preserve quality, I reckon I need to be rendering things to a lossless format each time -- and preferably, a single* lossless format, so that I don't run into any of the gotchas which occur when you mix video types. So my idea -- maybe naive, please correct me if need be -- is that maybe before doing any editing, I should gather all my clips and render them to this single lossless format, and thereafter render to nothing but this lossless format.

(*With one exception -- as mentioned, I have been told I need to use the *mov files when rendering to preserve alpha channel trasparency.)

So this leads to the question -- which format should I use as my default, quality-preserving working export format? (As opposed to my final production export format, which will of course depend on whether it will be for Youtube, a DVD etc).

Please bear in mind that I can tolerate just a little bit of lossiness if it means preventing every clip from being insanely huge. I remember several years ago using an AVI coded called Lagarith whicch was good for this, but that was all with a different generation of hardware and software.

I'd really appreciate some guidance. I have read a fair bit on tee web about codecs etc but wow, it's such a vast field, and hard to find this specific answer. I come from a digital audio background -- our choice of lossless formats is thankfully much mroe simple

The two best lossless formats to use for editing are Avid DNxND or Cineform.
You will have to render out each video clip using Movie Studio first and convert to one of these formats.

Both codecs will need to be installed before you can do anything.
John Rofrano has a great tutorial which explains the whole process for creating DNxHD videos.
johnrofrano.com/training/video-tutorials/avid-dnxhd-template-for-vegas-pro/

To use Cineform, install GoPro Studio.
You could actually use GoPro Studio to convert any videos that are already in a .mp4 format and convert to Cineform.avi
shop.gopro.com/APAC/softwareandapp/gopro-studio/GoPro-Studio.html#/start=1

For any videos that GoPro Studio will not accept, you can use Movie Studio to convert into Cineform.
All you have to do is follow the same process as shown in John's tutorial, and select Cineform HD as your Video Format - you will also have to press the Configure button and select a Cineform Encoding Quality to render to. High is probably the lowest setting you want to use. Keying quality allows for Alpha Channel, as far as I am aware.

Cineform can be rendered using Quicktime.mov or Video for Windows.avi

I have been planning to make a tutorial about this topic in the next few weeks.
I am extremely busy working on other tutorials at the moment, so this is the best I can do for now.

Regards
Derek

lingyai wrote: ~~ I have read a fair bit on tee web about codecs etc but wow, it's such a vast field, and hard to find this specific answer.~~

I have researched this subject many times, usually for days at a time. At a given point I finally get it and the information is lossless in my head......for about 5 minutes that is and then my brain seems to go lossy! 24 hours later the knowledge has seeped out of my ears and pores in my scalp and the information has been lost and I'm back to square one! Aggravating......but I must admit I may be getting to old to retain the knowledge!!!

I'm sure when you develop the direction you think is best, you will do some testing before committing to your project. I've done some testing and it may be of some small value as you proceed.

Like yourself, I often will use mixed media, but my primary camera records in DNxHD 220X (10 bit 4:2:2 sub-sampling) in a MOV container. From that I have rendered (in SMS13P) to DNxHD 220X in a MOV container, Cineform HD (YUV4:2:2, Filmscan 1) in a MOV container, and Lagarith Lossless (default settings) in an AVI container.

For my purposes and eyes, I cannot determine a difference, although I'm sure there are some differences.

Using the same test file (2 minutes, 3.2 gb) there wasn't a huge difference in time to render. There also wasn't a large difference in files size between DNxHD and Cineform, DNxHD being 3.2 gb, and Cineform being 3.9 gb. Lagarith of course, was expected to be the largest at 7.1 gb.

From those much smarter about this than I, the opinion seems to be very little visual loss through 4-5 generations of render for either the DNxHD or Cineform codec renders. Stipulating that the use of either of these requires rendering with higher or highest settings available (which I have with the test above).

My workflow usually consist of using the original DNxHD 220X (MOV) files and rendering them out to DNxHD 220X (MOV), after editing, etc., trying to hold any FX, color correction, color balancing, color matching for application prior to the final production render (depending on the purpose usually that is h.264.mp4 for the web, or Mpeg for DVD/Bluray). I attempt to use other original files such as MOV from a DSLR or MP4 from an Action Cam without prerendering, but have in the past also rendered them out as DNxHD 220X for later use, with reasonable results.

My projects are not for broadcast, or feature films, rather my own personal use and occasionally a client. Therfore I'm not as picky as other must be in the commercial world, but I think my results have been pretty good.

Thanks gentlemen! Very concrete and specific advice. I'll try these and see how I get on.

Derek, I know you're really busy, but maybe if you could quickly sneak in a 5-10 quickie on how to achieve all the FX in this



I'd be grateful. Hope it's not asking too much.

(Joking, joking...)

Thanks again!