Solved PAL or NTSC

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PAL or NTSC was created by Svendus

Good afternoon Austrailia and Good morning Sweden :)
This question might have been asked before
but we now got our first Sony 4K Actioncam 24 and 30p shooting 100 mpps


Note: remote control holder and gimbal tripod mount on of switch are custom made

i also have this cameras little brother shooting 50 and 60p HD
we are planning to shoot 30p 4K stationary and 60p HD on the Gimbal
Picture in Picture
the higher framerate gives better action video
so the question are
Do 24 and 30p vs 50 and 60p have any meaning when played on the internet ?
and not on a television, i think the higher framerate the best results ?
We have PAL in Sweden and i think also you have in Australia
09 Jul 2017 15:17 #1
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Replied by DoctorZen on topic PAL or NTSC

You can use any Frame Rate you like, when uploading videos to the Internet.
Many people that live in PAL countries like Sweden and Australia, are using 30 fps and 60 fps for their YouTube and Vimeo videos, because of the extra frames.

If you are shooting subjects like Sport or anything that is moving fast, it is best to use the highest frame rate possible, for a smooth and sharp image.
More and more people on YouTube are uploading in 60p now.

If you are making movies or short films, you will probably want to use conventional lower frame rates like 24p, 25p or 30p.
Most "movie" makers do not like the "video look" of high frame rate video, because it looks "too real".
Lower frame rate video with more motion blur, is better for "story telling".
Remember to turn everything off at least once a week, including your brain, then sit somewhere quiet and just chill out.
Unplugging is the best way to find solutions to your problems.
Peace :)
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09 Jul 2017 21:10 #2

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Replied by Eagle Six on topic PAL or NTSC

Hi Svendus,

If you are going use the 4K 30p for the main scene (project) and the HD 60p for picture-in-picture, the HD is going to either play as 'slow motion' or will be reduced to 30p to match the main event from the 4K footage (basically removing every other frame to match the 30p of the project). In effect there will be no advantage to shoot the HD in 60p for more smooth action flow, as the 60p will be reduced to 30p to match the project of the 4K during editing and rendering.

As a side note, it is interesting to me that manufacturers are jumping into the 4K market with 'action' cams that are restricted to 30p, when the industry standard is pretty much a minimum of 60p for 'action'. Recording higher frame rates is both technology based and storage space challenging, but for a camera that is billed as an 'action' cam, it's primary purpose being to shoot fast motion as in 'action', it just surprises me they opt for the gimmick of 4K, with slow 4k sensors at 30p to reduce the power and space requirements for a given physical foot print. It's just a personal opinion, not a complaint about the Sony action cams.

I would also add to Derek's advice about using higher frame rates for fast moving subjects (action), to also include fast moving cameras, such as 'run-n-gun' and the occasional fast moving pans and zoom for special effects. Faster frame rates usually produce better stabilization correction during post processing, as well.

I like your DIY/custom made holder and gimbal tripod mount on/off switch, nice job.
Best Regards......George
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10 Jul 2017 04:45 #3

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Replied by Svendus on topic PAL or NTSC

Hi Eagle thank you for the info
we noticed the 4K video was a little blurring when mowing the camera
The Sony 4K Actioncam can also shoot HD 60P
So do you suggest shooting 60P on both Cameras on http://www.mchk-racing.org/Classic Racing Anderstorp Sweden
Hate to say it but Sony had in the beginning with the HDR AS100V and AS200V no clue about building Action cams :huh:
but the latest 4K FDR-3000X camera things have become much better.

3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model/4f47c17b-dc22-411b-808e-46e0e8ae009b/FeiyuTech-Gimbal-apdapter-for-Sony-Remote


11 Jul 2017 16:47 #4
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Replied by Eagle Six on topic PAL or NTSC

Hi Svendus,

Speaking/reading only English, I used the Google website translator. If I have this correct, the link you provided is about motorcycle racing and it appears the bikes are like cafe racers, classic (maybe 2-stroke) bikes on a closed circuit course (similar to MotoGP). I also inserted "MCHK-Racing" into a Youtube search and came up with many videos taken with on-bike action cams. If I am correct that this is the subject of your fast moving action. Are you filming from the bike, or from the sideline, or perhaps both?

For this type of action, I would shoot in HD 60p, render in HD 60p and upload to Youtube in HD 60p. I think the improved smoother action would be far more desirable than any larger resolution obtained from 4K, assuming the 4K 30p is lacking in smoothness of the motion and/or appearing blurry.

If you are filming from the sideline and panning the racers, the bikes should be clear with the background blurry (that is going to be the same with 30p or 60p, but more noticeable with 30p) and when extreme, can be distracting. The 60p when panning will smooth out the action of the bike movement even when the bike is the main subject and you are tracking it. When not panning and the bikes are speeding by, then the 60p is definitely going to be an advantage to smooth out the action.

I think the 60p will also be an advantage if the camera is bike mounted, providing the mount reduces vibrations from bike to camera. There may be some occasional artifacts (Jell-O effect) from the rolling shutter -vs- global shutter, but that is another issue.

Fast action sports, such as bike racing, isn't the type of filming that we expect to see the "Hollywood Look" often yielded from 24p, so I think faster frame rates, such as 60p, will produce better results for online viewing such as Youtube. If you ever burn your video to Bluray, the frame rate will need to be reduced to NTSC or PAL, and then a motion blur filter could be used to smooth out the action.

My primary camera is a GH4 with an attached Atomos Ninja Blade recorder and I shoot in 4K for many videos. However I still render and produce in HD. The 4K provides me with an advantage to crop and also gives a little bit better Full-HD quality than my older HD only cameras. However, when filming fast moving action (being the base of the video), I will film in HD and up the frame rate to smooth out the action and then produce the video in 60p.

These are just my personal opinions, which may differ from yours. Experimenting with my camera combinations and obtaining the most favorable results that please me, seems to be a forever quest. And, I often find myself making trade-offs, never achieving 100% satisfaction, 100% of the time, but striving to come as close as reasonable for the equipment I have.

I would be interested in your results and what you have found that works best for you.
Best Regards......George
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12 Jul 2017 01:06 #5

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Replied by Svendus on topic PAL or NTSC

2017 Swedish tt Classic Road Racing YouTube Video

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25 Jul 2017 00:00 #6

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Replied by Eagle Six on topic PAL or NTSC

Hi Svendus,

Thank You for posting, very interesting, although I only have time to watch the first 15 minutes. Did you film this video?
Best Regards......George
25 Jul 2017 02:32 #7

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Replied by Svendus on topic PAL or NTSC

Yes with the Sony cam
seen on the Photos
the Vidio are much to long
it was made mostly for the Guys driving
TT should be seen Live
A video will not tell you all
we made a 2 minutes lap on the track 2 dayes before the Race on our tree whirler to test it.

25 Jul 2017 22:08 #8

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Replied by Eagle Six on topic PAL or NTSC

Nice Videos, Thank You for sharing. Track days are very popular in the US. Problem is, they are expensive and to long a distance for most to attend. My most rewarding track runs was while attending Freddie Spencer Race School at Miller Speedway in Utah some years back. Similar to skydiving, there just isn't any substitute for racing on the track. And I agree, it is extremely difficult to capture the trill on film.
Best Regards......George
26 Jul 2017 00:22 #9

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