Solved Movie Studio 17 platinum - a total nightmare?

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Hi All
Anybody else experienced this? I downloaded and installed the 17 upgrade last night. It has kept the old 13 version on my system. 17 is a nightmare. It just freezes / doesn't respond when asked to do the most basic tasks. E.g. I try to move the playhead, I get the timer symbol on the cursor and it says not responding up by the priogramme name, for about a minute, and even then the playhead doesn't move. It seems totally unworkable. I have a quite powerful laptop and version 13 used to work find in terms of speed. Also, playing through a project, the preview function doesn't work. To be fair, I tried to open a project from the old v13 folder. I will try to create a new project and see how that goes, but I suspect it is going to continue to be slower than the old version. Anybody had similar?

Thanks
Paul
14 Jan 2021 20:59 #1

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I haven't heard anyone else expressing your experience with v17.
I have not experienced any of the problems with v17 on my old i7-2600k computer.

Pleae note that upgrading does NOT remove older versions!
It is installs a completely standalone version of the program with no links to older version.

I would not recommend opening much older v13 projects and using that as your benchmark - there are probably parts of the old project that are not compatible with v17.
To test version 17, start a new project and import some videos.

Please answer ALL these questions...
What model CPU does your computer use?
What model Graphics Card?
How much RAM (memory) installed?
Which version of Windows?
What type of video are you working with? 1080p, 4K, GoPro, mobile phone video, etc...???

From version 15 onwards, Vegas Movie Studio uses a completely new encoder callerd MAGIX AVC.
The new encoder is optimized to work with only modern Graphics Cards.
If your laptop is not using a modern graphics card, only your CPU will be doing the processing.
If you do have a compatible graphics card, make sure it is turned ON in the preferences.
Go to Options/Preferences/Video - GPU Acceleration
Select GPU and re-boot Vegas.
:idea: Remember to turn everything off at least once a week, including your brain, then sit somewhere quiet and just chill out.
Unplugging is the best way to find solutions to your problems. If you would like to share some love, post a customer testimonial or make a donation.
Peace :)
14 Jan 2021 21:15 #2

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Thanks Derek
So, I've opened a new project, in fact a few, and tried a few things. Still no footage that I import shows in the preview window.

All the footage is mp4 footage. it is stuff that I have downloaded from youtube and used AVC to convert it into MP4. This type of footage has always worked ok for me in MSP 13. Also, in preparation for my current project, I have downloaded, trimmed and converted a load of footage, so a lot of time will have been wasted if I can't now use it.

When I use windows explorer the footage shows as MP4 format. I notice though that when I look at that sort of imported footage in MSP 17 and then right click and select properties, it says "format: AVC". It is 1280 x 720 footage at the moment.Although I want to include some vertical phone footage too. The project is set to 1920 x 1080.

I've just taken some footage on my phone and tried to import that to test that too. That is mp4 footage, 1920 x 1080. Again, that doesn't show either.

It's a bit funny. I upgrated from 13 to 17 mainly because ONE piece of footage was not showing in the preview window. Now NO footage is showing in the preview window.


Myu CPU is: Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-8550U CPU @ 1.80GHz   1.99 GHz
Graphics card: Intel UHD Graphics 620
RAM: 8GB
Windows: 10 Pro 20H2

Generally everything worked well on v 13.

When I go to preferences in MSP17 for GPU Acceleration the only option that comes up is "Optimal - Intel(R) Corporation - Intel(R) UHD Graphics 620", so having seen this in your videos a few times, I selected that already. That's oneof the first things that I did.


Thanks for any guidance Derek.

Paul




 
14 Jan 2021 22:34 #3

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Hi Derek
I'm including my latest reply here relating to my earlier thread. I've been continuing to try and get MSP 17 working so it probaby makes sense to keep it all on this thread now.

Thanks Derek
As you may have noticed I am the guy who has since upgraded to V17, but had more problems since doing that. I'm continuing to try now in V17, so my answers relate to that except where stated otherwise..

So, to answer your questions..
 - Why convert? That's a good question. I've been in the habit for a while. I think that I always thought it would be better to get my footage into one file type to avoid any issues and mp4 seemed like a well known, likely to be safe, bet. I think I used to have problems early on due to codecs and things and converting everything into mp4 using AVC seemed to remove any such issues for me.

Also, I generally like to cut up videos from youtube into smaller sections so that I can import smaller videos files into my project that are easier to work with. I use AVCs snip function to do this before converting them.

I've tried
- AVC downloaded and converted files,
- files that are downloaded via AVC, but not converted, and
- some footage from my phone (all mp4).

None of these work. I've also tried a jpeg still image. This also does not show in the preview window. So far, in V17, So, I have tried quite a few things from different sources (many of which I know will work fine in V13), and I have been unable to get anything to show in the preview window of V17.

My machine info again
Myu CPU is: Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-8550U CPU @ 1.80GHz   1.99 GHz
Graphics card: Intel UHD Graphics 620
RAM: 8GB
Windows: 10 Pro 20H2

Here are some details from MediaInfo. Firstly, for a video file which I've imported into a project on  v17 and V13.
On V17 ...
When I try to import the converted video, I can do so, and I can put it on the timeline, but (like everything so far) it does not show on the preview window.
When I try to import the raw downloaded video file, it just says "Warning: An error occured while opening one or more files. The reason for the error could not be determined. Details>> says: "....Berlin in July 1945 (HD 1080p color footage)-R5i9k7s9X_A.mkv could not be opened."

On V13 with this video
I can import and add the converted video and it shows on the timeline.
When I try to import / add the original AVC downloaded video from youtube, the Add Media dialogue box / window does not even see the file, so I cannot add it.

Here are the media info details for each one.

Pre-converted:
General
Unique ID                                : 150790310882567898136671585187383991125 (0x717128524317FD37CE1E84BFB3CFDB55)
Complete name                            : D:\Video Footage & Photos for Videos\Video\Old war & Tyrants\Pre converted\Berlin in July 1945 (HD 1080p color footage)-R5i9k7s9X_A.mkv
Format                                   : Matroska
Format version                           : Version 4
File size                                : 148 MiB
Duration                                 : 7 min 4 s
Overall bit rate                         : 2 932 kb/s
Writing application                      : Lavf58.29.100
Writing library                          : Lavf58.29.100
ErrorDetectionType                       : Per level 1

Video
ID                                       : 1
Format                                   : AVC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile                           : High@L4
Format settings                          : CABAC / 3 Ref Frames
Format settings, CABAC                   : Yes
Format settings, Reference frames        : 3 frames
Codec ID                                 : V_MPEG4/ISO/AVC
Duration                                 : 7 min 4 s
Width                                    : 1 920 pixels
Height                                   : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
Frame rate mode                          : Constant
Frame rate                               : 25.000 FPS
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 8 bits
Scan type                                : Progressive
Title                                    : ISO Media file produced by Google Inc.
Writing library                          : x264 core 155 r2901 7d0ff22
Default                                  : Yes
Forced                                   : No
Color range                              : Limited
Color primaries                          : BT.709
Transfer characteristics                 : BT.709
Matrix coefficients                      : BT.709

Audio
ID                                       : 2
Format                                   : Opus
Codec ID                                 : A_OPUS
Duration                                 : 7 min 4 s
Channel(s)                               : 2 channels
Channel layout                           : L R
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 kHz
Bit depth                                : 32 bits
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Language                                 : English
Default                                  : Yes
Forced                                   : No


The Converted file...
General
Complete name                            : D:\Video Footage & Photos for Videos\Video\Old war & Tyrants\Berlin in July 1945 (HD 1080p color footage)-R5i9k7s9X_A_x264.mp4
Format                                   : MPEG-4
Format profile                           : Base Media
Codec ID                                 : isom (isom/iso2/avc1/mp41)
File size                                : 195 MiB
Duration                                 : 7 min 4 s
Overall bit rate                         : 3 847 kb/s
Writing application                      : Lavf58.29.100

Video
ID                                       : 1
Format                                   : AVC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile                           : High@L4
Format settings                          : CABAC / 4 Ref Frames
Format settings, CABAC                   : Yes
Format settings, Reference frames        : 4 frames
Codec ID                                 : avc1
Codec ID/Info                            : Advanced Video Coding
Duration                                 : 7 min 4 s
Bit rate                                 : 3 713 kb/s
Width                                    : 1 920 pixels
Height                                   : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
Frame rate mode                          : Constant
Frame rate                               : 25.000 FPS
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 8 bits
Scan type                                : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.072
Stream size                              : 188 MiB (96%)
Title                                    : ISO Media file produced by Google Inc.
Writing library                          : x264 core 157 r2970 5493be8
Encoding settings                        : cabac=1 / ref=3 / deblock=1:0:0 / analyse=0x3:0x113 / me=hex / subme=7 / psy=1 / psy_rd=1.00:0.00 / mixed_ref=1 / me_range=16 / chroma_me=1 / trellis=1 / 8x8dct=1 / cqm=0 / deadzone=21,11 / fast_pskip=1 / chroma_qp_offset=-2 / threads=12 / lookahead_threads=2 / sliced_threads=0 / nr=0 / decimate=1 / interlaced=0 / bluray_compat=0 / constrained_intra=0 / bframes=3 / b_pyramid=2 / b_adapt=1 / b_bias=0 / direct=1 / weightb=1 / open_gop=0 / weightp=2 / keyint=250 / keyint_min=25 / scenecut=40 / intra_refresh=0 / rc_lookahead=40 / rc=crf / mbtree=1 / crf=22.0 / qcomp=0.60 / qpmin=0 / qpmax=69 / qpstep=4 / ip_ratio=1.40 / aq=1:1.00
Codec configuration box                  : avcC

Audio
ID                                       : 2
Format                                   : AAC LC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Audio Codec Low Complexity
Codec ID                                 : mp4a-40-2
Duration                                 : 7 min 4 s
Duration_LastFrame                       : -12 ms
Bit rate mode                            : Constant
Bit rate                                 : 128 kb/s
Channel(s)                               : 2 channels
Channel layout                           : L R
Sampling rate                            : 44.1 kHz
Frame rate                               : 43.066 FPS (1024 SPF)
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Stream size                              : 6.48 MiB (3%)
Language                                 : English
Default                                  : Yes
Alternate group                          : 1


Of course if there are better ways of downloading youtube footage and trimming it and converting it into a format that MSP 17 will reliably accept, then I'm all ears. The system I had previously seemed to work though, and I've spent a lot of time grabbing, trimming and converting things so it is a bit of a shame if I have to start again with all of that activity.

A very notable thing here is that so far NOTHING will show in the preview window of MSP17. I've spent about a day now trying to get basic functionality on MSP17. I'm wondering how much longer I should spend before giving up and trying to get a refund out of Magix.

Thanks


Paul
 
15 Jan 2021 00:52 #4

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After a lot of messing around, repeating and re-trying many of the same things, I've something new to report.
When I have the playhead paused, and I then adjust the size (height OR width) of thepreview window, I get the relevant image. As soon as I press play though, the image disappears and is replaced again by a black screen.
15 Jan 2021 02:02 #5

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OK, so the problem does seem to be linked in some way to my use of the USB Dock and perhaps the displaylink software / driver I use with that, which I have updated.If I am not plugged into the dock then I start MSP, everything displays in the preview window, although it is a lot more jumpy / pausy than it used to be with MSP 13.If I then plug into the dock, it actually seems to display ok on the other screen, and the footage seems less jumpy. I can add footage to the project, and indeed the troublesome footage that prompted me to upgrade in the first place. So I've done that and then saved and exited.I've then started MSP up again while connected to the dock, and gone into the same project that was playing ok before I closed it, and I have the same "no display" issue again.I've done the above to things twice and I get thesame result eachtime.So, it seems like MSP will display media in the preview window, as long as it is not FIRSTLY asked to do it when I an connected to the dock.I wonder if there is some sort of compatibility issue between DisplayLink and MSP.I can see that just editing on the laptop screen itself might form a workaround, but I'd much prefer not to. The laptop screen is only 13inch, It is very useful for me to have two screens active and available all through the day (especially for watching tutorials etc. in relation to this, while I try and use it), and also my storage is connected to and accessed through the dock.If also noticed that I have MSP open and I unplug from the dock, MSP closes.
15 Jan 2021 05:50 #6

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OK, so the problem does seem to be linked in some way to my use of the USB Dock and perhaps the displaylink software / driver I use with that, which I have updated.If I am not plugged into the dock then I start MSP, everything displays in the preview window, although it is a lot more jumpy / pausy than it used to be with MSP 13.If I then plug into the dock, it actually seems to display ok on the other screen, and the footage seems less jumpy. I can add footage to the project, and indeed the troublesome footage that prompted me to upgrade in the first place. So I've done that and then saved and exited.I've then started MSP up again while connected to the dock, and gone into the same project that was playing ok before I closed it, and I have the same "no display" issue again.I've done the above to things twice and I get thesame result eachtime.So, it seems like MSP will display media in the preview window, as long as it is not FIRSTLY asked to do it when I an connected to the dock.I wonder if there is some sort of compatibility issue between DisplayLink and MSP.I can see that just editing on the laptop screen itself might form a workaround, but I'd much prefer not to. The laptop screen is only 13inch, It is very useful for me to have two screens active and available all through the day (especially for watching tutorials etc. in relation to this, while I try and use it), and also my storage is connected to and accessed through the dock.If also noticed that I have MSP open and I unplug from the dock, MSP closes.

So If I am understanding you correctly, you have found the source/s of your problems.
Non-standard setups are often the causes of major headaches with Vegas.
USB docks can be problematic.
If you are editing direct from an External Hard Drive, I recommend connecting the Hard Drive directly to a USB 3.0 port and bypassing your USB dock.

I have never used Vegas with Intel Integrated Graphics (QSV), which is actually part of your CPU.
The one thing I do know, from reading 100's of forum posts on this topic, is that Intel Graphics Drivers can be a major problem with Vegas.
I have read that some Drivers for Intel graphics work OK with Vegas and others do not.

The bottom line is this.
Since Vegas Movie Studio Platinum 15 was released, including v16 and v17, you really need a dedicated Nvidia or AMD Radeon graphics card, to get the best of these never versions of Vegas.
Intel Graphics is very limited.
Movie Studio Platinum 13 works better with older computer architecture,
Vegas Movie Studio Platinum 17 works better with the latest computer architecture.

Also note that Vegas Movie Studio Platinum 17 has an inbuilt Proxy Video Creation tool, which can create "easier to play" versions of your videos, while editing.
And also setting the Preview Window = Preview/Auto quality.
I discuss that topic here:
www.moviestudiozen.com/free-tutorials/sony-vegas-pro/553-sony-vegas-zen-tips-3-preview-lag
:idea: Remember to turn everything off at least once a week, including your brain, then sit somewhere quiet and just chill out.
Unplugging is the best way to find solutions to your problems. If you would like to share some love, post a customer testimonial or make a donation.
Peace :)
15 Jan 2021 10:28 #7

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Hi Derek
Thanks again for your input. As you will understand, my level of knowledge and experience with all this is very limited.

I thought that I was using my seperate graphics card. Maybe that is just for the preview? Not sure.

Also, I had a quick look last night at external graphics cards for laptops and many of the options that seem to come up are docks which look similar to the one I am using, for connecting larger screens etc.So, does a Kensington USB 3.0 dock not include / contain a graphics card, and when it is connected to that is MSP not working through the displaylink drivers used for the dock? Very confusing and so many unknowns.   

bypassing the dock will no doubt solve the preview problem but it means I am working with just one small screen rather than two decent ones. If possible I'd like to find a way to make things work with the dock / two screens.

So, is my Intel UHD Graphics 620 card actually part of my processor? I'm not sure if my laptop has space fora seperate graphics card inside it. Are there any options you could recommend for something external, that would preferably let me connect to two screens? When I search for external graphics cards, I see ones for about £50 that use displaylink software, like what I already have, and ones for about £500 for gamers. I want to spend the minimum to just make the thing work reliably and preferably with two screens.

Thanks Derek and I realise you are putting yourself out here and it all relates to a complicated problem with no clear solution.

Thanks

Paul

 
16 Jan 2021 03:22 #8

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I'll try to keep this as simple as possible.

Intel UHD Graphics 620 is part of your CPU - it is not a separate device inside of your computer.
Intel graphics was designed mainly for laptops, as a more basic/power saving, graphics solution.
Since you don't have a dedicated Nvidia or AMD Radeon graphics card, I would recommend you have this turned ON in your Vegas preferences.
Go to Options/Preferences/Video - GPU Acceleration - select Intel graphics and re-boot Vegas.

Please note though, that Intel graphics does not work as well as a dedicated (separate) Nvidia or AMD Radeon GPU.
Nvidia and AMD GPUs are far superior for video editing programs and really what you should be using.
Many 3rd party FX will only work with Nvidia and AMD GPUs - Intel graphics is too basic.

Please also note that some users report that Intel graphics can cause problems with the latest versions of Vegas, if your Intel graphics is using a bad driver.
Some Intel drivers are problematic. Check that you have the latest Intel drivers installed.

Attaching an external graphics card to a laptop it a terrible solution - I would NEVER recommend this.
You can't upgrade a laptop and install a graphics card - this is something that comes "baked into" the computer when you buy it.
You really need to buy a new computer, if you do a lot of video editing.
A desktop computer is the best option for Vegas - you will get more bang for your buck with a desktop using one of the latest AMD Ryzen CPUs and an Nvidia or AMD Radeon GPU.

Does your laptop have a HDMI port ?
Connecting your computer to a 2nd monitor using an HDMI port, is the BEST way to connect a monitor.
I have no experience in using "docks".
I just assumed that when you mentioned a "dock", you were talking about a USB port hub, but now I realise you are talking about Kensington USB 3.0 dock.

If you're connecting a 2nd monitor and an External Hard Drive both with the same USB port, that will be creating a HUGE bottleneck.
If your computer has 2 or more USB 3.0 ports, you need to use them in the BEST way possible.
Running everything through your dock is going to cause a bottleneck.
If you computer does not have a HDMI port, then obviously you will need to use that "dock" to connect a monitor.
If there is a 2nd USB 3.0 port on the computer (not dock), connect your Hard Drive to that.
If there is a 3rd USB port, connect mouse to that.
If there is not a 3rd USB port, can you connect Mouse to dock ?

After writing a novel, the whole point to what I am saying, is that you need to try and reduce ALL bottlenecks in your computer.
Video Editing maxes out all computers - you need to have all resources using their own connections to the computer instead of sharing the one port.


 
:idea: Remember to turn everything off at least once a week, including your brain, then sit somewhere quiet and just chill out.
Unplugging is the best way to find solutions to your problems. If you would like to share some love, post a customer testimonial or make a donation.
Peace :)
The following user(s) said Thank You: PTDevon
16 Jan 2021 12:01 #9

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Thanks Derek
I'm going to look into all of that, maybe I need to invest in a desktop for this.
In the meantime I've attached the hard disk directly to the laptop and I will attach one of the larger screens with the HDMI slot.

Thanks
PAul
16 Jan 2021 21:11 #10

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