Solved Pre-rendering for standard definition DVDs

A question on process.
I recently purchased a new video camera that records in High Definition. I don’t plan on making any blue ray disks currently, only standard definition DVDs. Does it make sense to pre-render the video files to standard definition NTSC widescreen first then perform all my editing using those standard definition files to produce my final standard definition DVDs or is it better to use the high definition files and then render to standard definition widesceen DVD format? I am thinking using the standard definition files will reduce my rendering times particularly if I have to make any changes and re-render. I ask because I just went through this and used the high definition files and it took several hours to render and after creating the DVD I noticed some editing errors and had to go back and correct those and render again. Also, if I do pre-render to standard definition first should I use the bit rate calculator at that time to size the files to fit on a DVD or should I render it using the default bit rates and re-size it during the final render after all the edits are done?
Additionally, if pre-rendering isn't a good idea, does it make sense to setup my project properties as standard definition DVD widescreen format even though the files I am using are high definition? In other words don’t have my project properties match my input files but match the final output format I need instead.

Thanks ahead of time for your advice.

Hi boyds4,

I'll leave the answers to your questions for Derek or others to answer, and rather state what I do and perhaps it will be of some help.

Before High Definition, I was filming with two Standard Definition mini-DV camcorders. One was a Panasonic high-end consumer grade camera that had a great lens and a single CCD censor. It was a very good camcorder. The other was, at the time consider a prosumer grade Canon with a 3-CCD censor. The video from the Canon was superior to the Panasonic and the higher quality showed in the DVD I produced. For good reason, the larger 3-CCD censor and lens of the Canon was considerably better than the Panasonic, even though I got very good results from the Panasonic. It showed me, regardless of the format I used (SD DVD), the image produced by the higher priced (much higher price) camcorder produced superior results.

Now I use a High Definition Canon camcorder and of course the resulting source media is much higher quality than my older SD camcorders. I do produce video on Blu-ray disc, but also those same video I often burn as DVD's. There is a definite improvement in image quality of DVD when I use HD source media from the HD Canon.

This is the short version of my workflow.......I record 1080p source media, then match media to that, process and edit in either Movie Studio or Vegas Pro. When I burn the disc I select the appropriate format and template for the Blu-ray disc, or the appropriate format and template for uploading to YouTube, or the appropriate format and template (widescreen DV) for burning to DVD disc.

When I view the Blu-ray disc and compare it to the DVD disc, from the same project, on my HD TV, there is a small quality advantage of the Blu-ray over the DVD, but not that much. When I view DVD production I made years ago with the DV camcorders on my current HD TV there is a considerable difference in quality I detect from those productions I produce now with a HD camera and process as HD projects, but at the end simply render to DVD widescreen.

So, for me, I wouldn't want to downgrade my source media to SD before editing and burning. I think I get better results on my current DVD's by shooting in HD, processing and editing in HD, then downsizing when burning to DVD. For me, I wouldn't pre-render.

Hope this helps, it's just one opinion and I'm sure other members will contribute with perhaps some technical reasons as well.

Thank you George for taking the time to reply.
All really good and helpful information and something for me to consider. I used to use a Canon XL2 mini DV camcorder but the tape mechanism finally died and I had to purchase a new camera. I bought the Panasonic AG-AC90 and I really like it so far but, as expected, my rendering times increased too. Just trying to figure out what my optimal options are.
Thanks again.

I'm quite familiar with the Canon XL2, not familiar with the Panasonic AG-AC90. However from what I have read about the Panasonic AG-AC90, it is a great camera and I'm sure you are getting some great quality HD source media footage.

There are various opinions when it come to downsizing from HD to SD. I picked up some rewritable DVD disc and made some short test. I recorded HD and rendered as DVD. I recorder as SD and rendered to DVD. The HD recording render to DVD was superior than using SD source media (from the same camera). However I have never taken the HD source media and pre-rendered it to SD, then edited and burned it to DVD. My guess would be less quality at the end, but how much less would always be a guess until I tested the results. And, of course, my opinion of the results may be different than yours. It is a general rule, the more you render a delivery format file the more quality will be lost. Again, the quality lost by rendering only twice may be subjective between viewers.

If you record in HD, then pre-render to a an intermediate SD file, then edit that DV footage and render to DVD, you may save some time and disc space. But you will also have the overhead of the intermediate pre-rendered file both in time to render and space on hard drive. Seems like a series of small sample test files to compare the results may be a neat project.

If your record in HD, although you are only producing SD at this time, but in the future start producing Blu-ray disc, the footage you have shot earlier will work at the highest quality on Blu-ray later. I'm sure you have thought of this.

Hi boyds4

You don't have to pre-render or convert anything if you are going to make a DVD.
It is best to leave everything as is and work with the original HD video file versions.
This is exactly what I teach in all my DVD Architect tutorials.
www.moviestudiozen.com/free-tutorials/dvd-architect-studio-50/532-how-to-render-video-dvd-bluray-menus-sony-vegas-pro

If your CPU is only 2x Core, that is what is making your render times really slow.
Do you know what model CPU you have ?
Search "system information" in Windows Search box and select result.
Right down the full Processor details.

Since you have invested in a new HD video camera, it makes far more sense to burn Blu-ray discs and not DVDs.
DVDs are such an old technology now and will loose all the beautiful detail from your camera.
You can easily upgrade your DVD drive to a Blu-ray/DVD Combo drive, for about $100.

The Bit Rate calculator should only be used for the very final render of your project, if needed.
My website is called Movie Studio Zen for a reason. I'm trying to encourage everyone to remove all unnecessary steps and make things as simple as possible.

What is the total length in time of all the videos you want to put on a single DVD ?
Did you buy 4.7 GB single layer DVDs or 8.5 GB dual layer DVDs ?

Regards
Derek

I have already viewed your tutorials and actually that is where I got the idea of pre-rendering. You converted your HD footage to SD in your tutorial on creating proxy files for HD editing. I just took that one step further and thought I could just use those "proxy" files and generate my SD DVD from those since the definition would be the same.

I have to use a laptop for my video editing since I am out and about a lot and don't want to carry a desktop pc with me. The CPU on my laptop is a quad core AMD A6-3420M APU with Radeon HD Graphics, 1500Mhz, 4 cores, 4 logical processors. 8GB of RAM and 5700RPM hard drive. I know it isn't even close to what would be considered a high end video editing system but I does OK. To render my 2 hour and 10 minutes HD video with about 42 scrolling titles, it took 3 hours and 54 minutes.

The length of the video is 2 hours and 10 minutes.

The reason I am creating DVD rather than Blu-ray is very few of my customers are willing to pay for Blu-ray. I am recording dance recitals and, for what ever reason, these parents don't want Blu-ray. I have single layer 4.7 GB disks. I agree that Blu-ray would produce a much better quality product but the customer gets what the customer wants.

I followed your tutorial for putting this length of video on 4.7GB disks using Mark's bitrate calculator. It works great BTW.

Thanks for all your work putting together all of these tutorials. They are extremely helpful. I hope you will continue to produce these tutorials after Magix takes over with their next Movie Studio version.

Pre-rendering and Proxy Video Editing are two totally different things.

I would never render out a final project using the lower quality SD proxy versions, because that would mean your source video is being rendered twice, which can mean you end up loosing some video quality. With proxy video editing, you must always return back to the originals before rendering. If you have Movie Studio Platinum 13, you can use the inbuilt proxy creation tool to improve playback while editing.

Not all video formats work well when pre-rendering video. Personally I am not a fan of pre-rendering, because I have had too many people experience audio sync issues under "certain circumstances".

Your render times are actually very good, considering your CPU only has a clock speed of 1.4 GHz and turbo of 2.4 GHz.
Your Hard Drive is slow at 54oo RPM. 7200 RPM is preferred for video editing.

Yes you will definitely need to use the Bit Rate calculator.
Here are the settings I would use for 2 hours 10 mins.
Sometimes you may need to bump the safety margin a little higher, if video is still too big or even make it lower if there was room left over. But it sounds like you don't need any help with this and know what you're doing :woohoo:



Try and educate people about Blu-ray when and if you can.
A lot of people still don't realise that if they own an XBox or Playstation, they have the ability to play Blu-ray's.

No one uses Video Tape anymore. In 2016, I consider DVD to be like using video tape.
It's a weird situation that I just don't understand.

All the best man