Solved AVI output settings - transferring Film to Video

I have an AVI file which is a Cine Film capture where all the individual frames of the film are stored. I put it onto the timeline to edit various parts.

Can anyone tell me how to save the AVI file which is on the timeline and to keep all the existing settings. Do I export or render and which settings should I use.

Many Thanks

Bill

Hi Bill

This seems like a basic beginners question, but maybe I am not understanding exactly what you mean ?

There are two functions you use for all projects, that are completely different.

1. Save As is what you use to save your Project File. This saves a copy of exactly what you see on the timeline and all your settings.

2. Render As or Make Movie (which means the same thing) is the function that renders a new video from everything you have added to the timeline.

An .avi is a generic file container for many possible video codecs.
Do you know what Video Codec the video was recorded in ?

What is the end destination for your project ?
Once we know where/how you want to play the video, then we can advise as to what is the best export/render settings.

Please explain a little more about where you want the workflow to end up.

Regards
Derek

Hello Derek

The AVI file was generated by a Canon XM2 camera so I assume the codec will be a DV codec. When I captured this file which is individual frames of a Cine 8mm film I want to edit parts of it before I export it in exactly the same format. In a nutshell, leave it in the same AVI format as it was before it was edited.

Hope that makes sense.

Thanks
Bill

You can't render back to the exact same format your camera recorded the original video in.
Only your Canon XM2 can do that.

It looks like this is a fairly old camera now and only records to Standard Definition video.
What is the Frame Size of the video coming out this camera ?
If you go to the Project Media tab in Movie Studio and click on top of the original video file from camera, it will tell you below what the exact properties of the video are, like Frame Size, Frame Rate, Field Order...

What is the final destination of your rendered video ?
Meaning, how do you want to play the new video you have rendered out of Movie Studio ?
Do you want to burn a DVD ?
or
Do you just want the ability to play the video back on a computer ?
or
View on TV via network/USB drive ?

Once I know what you want to do with the new video after rendering, then I can tell you what Format and Template you should be using.

Hello Derek

Yes I know the camera is old but it is better than my Sony TRV 355 for what I am doing. Also I'm only interested in SD capture of my cine films at present.

The captured file is 720x576x24, 25 fps, Alpha = none, Field Order = Lower field first, DV.

After editing I will save it out to the hard drive then convert the file to 18 fps with a dedicated program which does a better job than Sony Vegas.

With it converted to 18 fps I will put it back into Sony Vegas and render it out in a variety of ways, ie. DVD, mpg 2 and mpg 4. I know this is an odd way of going about it but I'm sure it will work.

Hope that explains what I'm trying to do.

Many thanks

Bill

This is starting to sound really complicated.
I think you really need to speak directly with another forum member Kiwihans who actually does this professionally and uses Sony Vegas for most of the workflow. You can read some of Hans' forum posts as well.
www.moviestudiozen.com/forum/profile/1052-kiwihans

If Kiwihans does not reply to this forum post soon, I will private message him and ask if he can reply to you directly, because I'm sure he can help you out.

Hi Bill,

As Derek replies, it is not likely you can render out of Movie Studio in the exact form as the original. With that said, you probably don't need 'exact', but something reasonably close, or as close as possible.

Is there a reason why you prefer to bring the original into Movie Studio, do some editing, render out, then bring that result into your dedicated program to change the frame rate?

If you want the film to have the same format as the original, to put it into your dedicated program to change the frame rate, why not do that before you perform your edits?

Also, 'editing' encompasses many changes for many folks. How intensive are your initial 'edits'? It could be as simple as cutting parts out, or more complex by making color changes, etc.

I use 'Mediainfo' to look at files and determine their characteristics before and after. If you are not familiar, Mediainfo is a free program which will display various aspects of a video file (I have found the 'text' view the most helpful). I would use this to look at the original and then determine a few render options to try and then compare the before specs, to the after specs.

There are several DV codecs you should have in your Movie Studio which should provide something acceptable. Not having a sample of your footage, I cannot provide you with a precise answer to your question. If you can post a few seconds of video from your camera, that I can then download, I could then tinker around with it.

It sounds to me that you need either a lossless render, or near lossless (visually lossless) so as to retain as much of the original as possible before changing the frame rate and bringing it back into Movie Studio the 2nd time for final editing and adjustment and then render out to your preferred delivery format.

There are two choices you may want to try, Lagarith and Uncompressed. Make Movie > Save to my hard drive > Advanced options > Formats 'Video for Windows' > Templates 'PAL DV' > Customize Template > Video Formats:, and select from various choices which include Lagarith, uncompressed, and many others. Personally, for me, I don't like or use either the Lagarith or Uncompressed, but they must be valuable to some.

I'm working with ProRes original files and use CineForm as an intermediate codec render, to retain as much of the original as possible, yet keep the file size reasonable. My originals are of course different than yours, but I think my mission is the same, to get an intermediate render with little harmful loss.

BTW, if you don't mind, what is the dedicated program you are using to change the frame rate? If I'm not already familiar with it, I may be interested in trying it for future projects.

Hello George

I capture my cine films with a program called Cinecap which is the recommended program for my WorkPrinter XP. I found that Cinecap will pulldown the frame rate to 18fps for Super 8mm film better than Sony Vegas but that may be because I didn't do it right. With Cinecap you can just select various frame rates and see how it looks. You can then do multiple pulldowns at the same time.

If I convert to 18fps then there are a lot more frames to edit, that is why I would like to edit the file first.

I'll have a look at the uncompressed make movie option and see what happens.

As I'm still learning how to process things I may well adopt a different approach in the future.

Many thanks for your help,

Regards Bill

BillTweedy wrote: Hello George

I capture my cine films with a program called Cinecap which is the recommended program for my WorkPrinter XP. I found that Cinecap will pulldown the frame rate to 18fps for Super 8mm film better than Sony Vegas but that may be because I didn't do it right. With Cinecap you can just select various frame rates and see how it looks. You can then do multiple pulldowns at the same time.

If I convert to 18fps then there are a lot more frames to edit, that is why I would like to edit the file first.

I'll have a look at the uncompressed make movie option and see what happens.

As I'm still learning how to process things I may well adopt a different approach in the future.

Many thanks for your help,

Regards Bill

I thought I was getting a better understanding of your workflow, but I'm getting more confused maybe!!

You are running your film through your Workstation XP and recording that on your Canon XM2 at 25 fps. Then taking it into Movie Studio, doing some editing. Rendering it out to a like same DV file. Them you are feeding that to Cinecap and making a frame adjustment to 18 fps. Then that will go back into Movie Studio to finalize and render out to your selected delivery format. This is what I thought you were doing.

But your statement above, "If I convert to 18fps then there are a lot more frames to edit, that is why I would like to edit the file first." I would think there are less frames to edit after you convert from 25 down to 18. I think I am misunderstanding, and my apology if this is the case.

Am I correct assuming the video file from your camera, that you want to first edit in Movie Studio before changing the frame rate, is a file with an .avi extension (container)? Can you post a text from Mediainfo of your camera file?

I think, Roger Evans, would be able to answer your question quickly, however if he is not familiar with Sony Movie Studio, then with a Mediainfo text printout, we probably can help you find the best match available in Movie Studio to fulfill your desired workflow.

I attempted to read a manual on your Cinecap program, but it appears to be a proprietary program only available to folks, like yourself, who have purchased a Workstation.

Hello George

Sorry to confuse you, I know I do myself. When I capture the cine film it generates an AVI file at 25fps and when I play it back it can sometimes look like a Charlie Chaplin film. It's my understanding that to make it run at the right speed it has to be slowed down. This is achieved buy adding a pattern of extra frames. Cinecap does this for me and I don't need to know how it's achieved. One of my 50ft captures produces a file with 3608 frames and after pulldown to 18fps the number of frames increases 4811, an extra 1203 frames.

This is the information from Sony Vegas about the captured file -- 720x576x24, 25 fps, Alpha = none, Field Order = Lower field first, DV.

I'll see about getting the Mediainfo program.

Hope that helps

Regards
Bill