Solved Rendering source mv2 clips to blu-ray mv2 stream hangs at NNN frame every time

I've run into a scenario that will hang Movie Studio 13 100% of the time. Rendering source mv2 stream clips out into mv2 stream files.

Is using mv2 files as source media not supported?

Step 1

1. Create some new Projects as Blu-ray, 1920x1080-24p
2. Create some short mv2 stream clips from any sources NOT mv2. They just need to be a few seconds/minutes long.
3. Render them using MediaConcepts MPEG-2, as Blu-ray 1920x1080-24p (matches project)
4. Preview works and these will render fine.

Step 2

1. Create another new Project as Blu-ray, 1920x1080-24p (matches the output of all the others)
2. Drag and drop the short clips created with the first projects into a single video track. (Movie Studio 12 does not support this. 13 does.)
3. Arrange them on the timeline so that fade into each it. This is just a compilation video of the others. Fading may not be necessary. Heck more than one clip isn't really necessary.
4. Render this using MediaConcepts MPEG-2, as Blu-ray 1920*1080-24p (matches project)
5. Hang

Result:
Movie Studio 13 will hang 100% of the time at a specific frame during render (one project at frame 39, another at frame 4155, etc). The frame number will be visible under the preview window. (preview works fine in the app) The "frame of the hang" will stay the same unless the video clips are moved or edited, then it may be slightly different. The hang is not specific to any clip. Reordering the clips on the timeline will cause it to hang in a different place, different clip, different frame. As alluded to, I can get this to happen with just one clip.

Also, Rendering cannot be cancelled successfully. The only way out is to kill Movie Studio 13 using task manager. The app is in a soft hang, unresponsive, yet the time counter continues to count. When the hang happens the expected ETA count starts counting up. I have waited as long as 30 minutes for a 30 second video clip to complete before killing it.

I have tried this both with and without audio in the project. Doesn't have any affect.

The only workaround seems to be to make sure the source clips used in the compilation project are not mv2. This defeats the purpose of importing clips that will be used in the final blu-ray project to create shorter comp clips for animated menus. (how I ran into this)

• All source clips are the same format - m2, 1920x1080, 23.976 frame rate, progressive
• Project format is 1920x1080, 23.976 frame rate, progressive
• Render format is 1920x1080, 23.976 frame rate, progressive

Is using mv2 files as source media not supported? If not so be it. I haven't been able to find anything in the docs that says this isn't supported, and if it's not supported then why are we allowed to insert these format files into the timeline?

• Windows 10
• Movie Studio 13 (build 955)

Original sources are all iPhone video clips, mov or mp4, 1920x1080, but 29.97 or 29.09 fps (not sure why the fps is different....not my phones). I have been using the mv2 files output as 24p as intermediate files so they are the exact same before editing them together into longer clips. My current workaround is to go to mp4, 29.97 for all...THEN edit them together into yet another mp4, 29.97. Not going to 23.976 until the very last step. This seems like a LOT of extra intermediate files and steps that shouldn't be needed.

Movie Studio 13 and DVD Arch Pro 6 seem quite a bit buggier than MS12 and DVD5. It's been a few years since I have needed to use either, so I'm dismayed that I've run into so many gotchas that were never issues with previous versions of the apps.

Thanks for any thoughts!

Hi Kelly,

First, Thank You for a very detailed question.

I followed your workflow and could not duplicate your results. I started a Blu-ray project 1920x1080 24p. Brought in a .mov clip and rendered to m2v. I repeated that with another .mov clip and rendered that to m2v. Then started a 3rd project, brought in the 2 previous .m2v rendered clips and rendered them both to a Blu-Ray 1920x1080 24p .m2v. All worked fine.

In addition I also started a 4th project, brought in the 2 previous .m2v rendered clips and added a different .mov clip (total 3 clips, 2 .m2v's and 1 .mov) and rendered those three to Blu-ray .m2v. All worked fine and play fine in VLC and Potplayer.

However, there are a few differences between my system and yours. First, I'm on the same Movie Studio 13 Platinum (build 955), but in Windows 7 sp1. Although some folks have reported problems when going to Windows 10, I don't think this is a problem in your case.

Another difference is, my source media is from a Nikon DSLR. I don't have any iPhone source media to test. The second and more concerning is, all my source is 29.970. Your 29.09 fps source is the most suspicious. If you take out the 29.09 source media do you have the same hang-up results? Also, when you render a previously rendered .m2v, as the render process progresses the preview window should reflect 'No Recompression Required'. Are you getting the same message when you render the previously rendered .m2v files?

Obviously there is something different in our processes, or perhaps I have failed to exactly duplicate your workflow. I'm very suspicious the difference in our results is reflected in the difference in our source media files.

Thanks for the thoughts and questions, and sorry for my slow response. Also, sorry about the typo...MV2 instead of M2V...brain knows better, fingers don't.

I suspected that the frame rate conversion was also at the root of the issue at first, yet, the issue is happening with post converted to 24p files, regardless of the original format. Original source files may be a red herring.

I strongly suspect the issue is happening during a crossfade, or fade.

I have a few examples of projects with small media files that will repro the problem, but the media files are scattered across the hard drive. If I move them and replace the media with a copy of the same file at any different location then the hangs goes away. They no longer repro. Because of this can't zip up these projects and have them still repro the hang. Maybe this is another symptom to consider. (of course this method can sometimes be used as a way to avoid the hang....it defeats finding the bug that it causing the hang)

A new project that does repro the issue has been created and zipped. It uses three M2V 24p files in a 24p project. No conversions are needed except during crossfades. The resulting rendered M2V file is to be only 30 seconds.

Unfortunately, the three source media files are large. The full zip file is 2.6G.

To repro:

Download:
Movie Studio 13 Hang Project

1. Unzip all files into a single directory
2. Open project in MS13
3. Render this using MediaConcepts MPEG-2, as Blu-ray 1920*1080-24p (matches project)

Quick followup.

I was able to repro the hang with the DL project. Yet, it hit a hard hang on the first frame. (!!!!)

WHY?? I had included the sfvx files in the zipped project. Movie Studio 13 did not see fit to recreate them after the project was moved to a different full path.

Deleted the sfvx files, allowed MS13 to recreate them. Hang goes away. (means you may not be able to repro the problem if the sfvx files get recreated)

It's very possible the hangs are caused by sfvx files that should be recreated, yet MS13 isn't detecting that they need refreshing, or that the sfvx files are bad in the first place.

For this reason there may be an addition step needed to set up the hang scenario more consistently.

1. Create a project and add media rendered from another project. Use the media files where they were created. (hmmm...does this overwrite the existing sfvx files if they exist?)
2. Confirm all is good. Final render is good.
3. Slightly change the OTHER project(s), then re-render one or more or those source media files.
4. MS13 should detect that the source media has changed, forcing a recreation of the sfvx files of any media that was changed. It doesn't, at least sometimes.
5. At this point the sfvx files in the new project of any of those re-rendered media will not match the newly re-rendered files. MS13 barfs.

All that said, the repro project (download above) hit the hang without taking this step, yet it can be fixed by moving all the underlying media files to a different location, deleting the sfvx files and have MS13 recreate them.

In the future when I have this issue again (and I will considering how many times I've hit it over the last few weeks) I will try to avoid the problem by simply deleting the sfvx files. If this always works as a fix/workaround then the bug is in MS13 and it's ability to know when the sfvx files need to be recreated, or that MS13 is creating bad sfvx files in the first place sometimes.

Hi Kelly,

I have downlaoded your files and working on the first test render, if it doesn't hang I will follow your last post and test again......be back soon!

HI Kelly,

After downloading your files, I have tried various approaches to get them to work. They do appear to be a mess! This is my observations, it may help, may not, and other members here may have some valuable input as well.....

Video created with camera phones have been known to create some strange results when placing them in a video editor (the codec they use is for a delivery format, rather than for a friendly edit format). Some of the problem stem from variable frame rate recordings in the phone. NLE programs (such as Movie Studio) don't like variable frame rate source media. This can be corrected by converting the iPhone videos in a program such as 'Any Video Converter' before bringing them into Movie Studio.

It appears your m2v files include 'Closed Captioning'. I think iPhones have the capability to turn On/Off closed captioning. If you do not need this feature (to my knowledge closed captioning is not supported in Movie Studio), I would turn it off and try a short test. I have no idea how a close caption from your phone would get into the m2v file from Movie Studio. And it appears the closed caption is blank.

It appears you are bringing in the iPhone video to Movie Studio, making some edits, transitions and perhaps other FX's, then rendering out to m2v as an intermediate file. I'm not sure why you are doing this, as opposed to perhaps another codec, but regardless it should work. It works for me, but not using your sample project (.vf) file and the included .sfvx files.

I can simulate your project with my Nikon mov source files without error. I think this may imply the problems stem from your source media. I would first turn off the closed captioning (although this may have no effect on or off). Then I would process the source through a program something like Any Video Converter and convert the video to something that Movie Studio would like such as h.264 (mp4), m2ts, avi, etc.

I used Any Video Converter on your m2v project files, converted them to mpeg-4 (mp4) and used your project replacing your files with the AVC convertered files and it rendered flawlessly, as would be expected.

There may be something here that I haven't seen (maybe to close to the forest to see the threes), or maybe it is simply above my head. Perhaps other members will have a contribution.

"Some of the problem stem from variable frame rate recordings in the phone. NLE programs (such as Movie Studio) don't like variable frame rate source media. This can be corrected by converting the iPhone videos in a program such as 'Any Video Converter' before bringing them into Movie Studio."

This comment resulted in an AHA!!! moment.

I'm pretty ignorant of video formats and what they are under the hood. The originals are, indeed, mp4, at what seems to be slightly non-standard frame rates (29.907, 29.902, and 29.952, all from the same iphone). Your suggestion to use mp4 as the source files is good, as I worked around the hang by using the originals instead of the m2v files. (but...see below)

Because the end project is 23.976 (1920x1080-24p blue-ray) I want to output all the video clips as that. No conversion or rerendering needed later. I am using Movie Studio 13 to output all video clips to the exact video format the blu-ray project is in so they don't need rerendering in DVDA6. Audio is in separate files and also match the blu-ray project.

As for the 30 second project that hangs, that project was attempt to create media for an animated menu button that points to the three full videos. (the real full blu-ray project has over 20 video clips and over 400 stills as slide shows, and 7 animated menus) I assumed that using an MS13 project that is 24p, source media that is 24p and matches the project, and then output at 24p, would mean no need to convert from beginning to end. This is what's so confusing to this ignorant guy. If everything is the same format then what the heck could I be doing wrong?

Why was this an AHA!!! moment? The MainConcept MPEG-2 plug-in in Movie Studio 13 defaults to rendering 1920x1080-24p for Blu-ray as m2v Variable Bit Rate. There are many other setting that can be changed, but being ignorant of what most do I changed nothing and used the defaults.

I had no idea. If MS13 and/or DVDA6 doesn't handle variable bit rates well then this may very well be at the root of the problems all along.

I mean, if the source media files are variable bit rate, and they are overlapping fading from one clip to the other perhaps Movie Studio mistakenly sees these as source files that don't need to be rerendered when they do.


(As a side note, rendering and burning blu-ray discs was a bear until I converted all the video media to m2v. DVDA6 did not like using the original mp4 video clips as sources. Disc rendering was taking 6 hours and then it would hit an unknown error. Using m2v 24p files seems to have worked around that issue. Disc rendering is down to about 2.5 hours.)


I will go back and rerender the all of projects as fixed rate m2v to see if the hang magically goes away.

"It appears your m2v files include 'Closed Captioning'."

I have no idea about that. I don't see it in the original files nor the m2v files. What should I look for and where is that? My only video editor is Movie Studio.

Thanks for your help and thoughts.

Hi Kelly

I have just come back from a break and am reading your original message only now.

If the program is freezing every time you try to render a video for DVD or Blu-ray disc, turning off GPU Acceleration should fix this problem. I experience the exact same problem when I render to this format and have to remember to turn the GPU off. When Movie Studio only uses the CPU to render, you shouldn't have a problem anymore.

Go to Options/Preferences/Video
Turn OFF GPU Acceleration
Re-boot Movie Studio
Load your project render it now - hopefully it works this time.

If that does not fix your problem, the next thing you should do is reset the program and delete the temporary files cache.
Over time garbage files build up in the cache and sometimes this can cause big problems.
To reset the program do this:
Turn Movie Studio Off.
Hold down CONTROL and SHIFT keys at the same time AND ALSO AT THE SAME TIME double click program icon on Desktop to Boot program.
Window will pop up.
Select Delete Cache and Yes.
This will restore program to Factory Default Settings.

Regards
Derek (aka Dr Zen)

Hi Kelly,

I may have confused you in my previous reply, my apologies......

"Some of the problem stem from variable frame rate recordings in the phone. NLE programs (such as Movie Studio) don't like variable frame rate source media. This can be corrected by converting the iPhone videos in a program such as 'Any Video Converter' before bringing them into Movie Studio."

kellycraven wrote: Why was this an AHA!!! moment? The MainConcept MPEG-2 plug-in in Movie Studio 13 defaults to rendering 1920x1080-24p for Blu-ray as m2v Variable Bit Rate. There are many other setting that can be changed, but being ignorant of what most do I changed nothing and used the defaults.

Some camera phones record in variable FRAME RATES, which is why you probably are experiencing the different frame rates of 29.907, 29.902, and 29.952 (all from the same phone). We are not speaking of variable bit rates, rather the variable frame rates. If you can change this in the iPhone from variable frame rate to a constant frame rate, that would be the best solution. However, I have heard from others that they cannot change this in their phones. So, converting your source files to a constant 29.970 frame rate (or 23.976) will make Movie Studio much happier to edit and render.

This conversion can be done with Any Video Converter, as I mentioned before (it is a free program), or any other number of programs such as Handbrake (another free program), and handbrake may actually work better, because you should be able to convert your source media (which I think is variable frame rate), directly to constant frame rate of 23.976 and essentially kill two birds with one stone! Then your converted file is constant frame rate and 24p which you want for your 24p Blu-ray final render. Also I think Handbrake may be superior to changing the 29.xxx fps second source to a constant 23.976 (24p) in preparation to match your other Bluray media.

kellycraven wrote:

"It appears your m2v files include 'Closed Captioning'."

I have no idea about that. I don't see it in the original files nor the m2v files. What should I look for and where is that? My only video editor is Movie Studio.

Movie Studio doesn't support Closed Captioning, so you don't see it there, although this could be causing a problem. I see it because I also have Vegas Pro and when I tried your project in Vegas Pro (which does support closed captioning) it proceeded to build the Sony .scc files, which are the additional file Vegas Pro builds for the project when the clip is added to the timeline as an event, and has closed captioning. In this case those .scc closed caption support files are zero bytes. Vegas is seeing closed caption, but there are not any closed captions within the clip. At least this is what I think it is indicating.

Closed Captioning will be a part of the iPhone. There should be a configuration setting within the phone for turning on/off Closed Captioning. I'm not familiar with the iPhone, so the only thing I can recommend is start with the owners manual, maybe in the video setup section.

Again, this may not have anything to do with your troubles, I'm just trying to identify anything that is strange between your source files and mine, in an attempt to weed out your problems.

DoctorZen wrote: If the program is freezing every time you try to render a video for DVD or Blu-ray disc, turning off GPU Acceleration should fix this problem. I experience the exact same problem when I render to this format and have to remember to turn the GPU off. When Movie Studio only uses the CPU to render, you shouldn't have a problem anymore.

When I mentioned in a previous reply that I may be too close to the forest to see the trees, this was one of those gem like trees I couldn't see, as Derek points out turn off the GPU Acceleration and do a reset. This many times has corrected an issue and I think should be some the first steps to take running down a problem. Unfortunately, in this situation, this has not effect on my results using your project, I still cannot get a render.

I think converting your source files in perhaps Handbrake and to 24p footage, then being them into Movie Studio may be your simplest and quickest method, not the only method, but perhaps a reasonable work around you may like.

Kelly,

One additional note about the Closed Captioning, to make sure I haven't mislead you in my previous post. When I say Movie Studio doesn't support closed captioning, I don't mean it will not edit video with closed captioning, just that it will not display, allow edits, or render the closed captioning along with the video. The concern I have isn't that you have closed captioning video in Movie Studio, rather the closed caption .scc file is zero bytes. This may be perfectly normal, I'm not familiar with closed captioning, but would think this .scc file should have some size to it. So, if I could turn it off in the phone, for at least a test, that is what I would do to eliminate a possible cause.