Question Issues with playback after rendering to a .m2ts file

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Issues with playback after rendering to a .m2ts file was created by JoeD

Hi Derek,

I am having an issue with a project as described below.

I use Vegas Movie Studio 14 platinum and render to an .m2ts format as only save my projects to hard drive and watch them from there, don’t post anything to YouTube. The rendering process works fine but when I go to play it back the trouble starts. I can play back about the first 50 minutes of the video then it starts to get choppy then stops after a few seconds while the audio continues right to the end of the project. I have also rendered this in the .mp4 format which you recommended in your tutorial on this program when it was released. The .mp4 plays back fine without any issues, BUT the quality of video particularly when panning seems blurry, almost ghosting and I guess that is because I shoot in 50i. In the .m2ts format the images are sharp and true HD quality.

I used a Canon HF G10 HD video camera to shoot the footage. The original project is AVCHD with a file extension of .MTS. I shot the video in FXP at 17 Mbps so I would have a high quality picture in the final product. I have used the Sony AVC/MVC (*.mp4,*.m2ts,*.avc) = AVCHD 1920x1080-50i to render the project which resulted in the above issues. I also tried MainConcept MPEG-2 (*.mpg;*.m2v;*.mpa) = Blu-ray1920x1080-50i, 25Mbps video stream, this gave a video which played perfectly but there was no audio. When I checked the Audio tab in the customise area of the render process it was greyed out so could not select anything.

An interesting point is that in Vegas Movie Studio Version 12 I have used Sony AVC/MVC (*.mp4,*.m2ts,*.avc) = AVCHD 1920x1080-50i to render my projects in the past and they worked fine. In Version 14 I used the same settings but on further examination I noticed that under the “System” tab the Format is greyed out while in Version 12 it has a dropdown box that gives 2 options other than the MPEG-2 transport system. Clearly I am grasping at straws but just wanted to know if that would make any difference.

I have tried playing this back through Windows Media Player and also VLS but have had the project “stall” as described above in both players. I have invested countless hours in editing this video through to the final product. I have also researched your site, various other internet forums as well as trying different render settings to resolve my issue but without success.

Would be very grateful for any help in resolving this challenge for me.

Many thanks,

Joe
26 Oct 2019 12:37 #1

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Replied by DoctorZen on topic Issues with playback after rendering to a .m2ts file

Hi Joe and welcome the MSZ Forum

The "interlaced" formats (odd and even horizontal lines) you have been rendering to, are only meant for Blu-ray/DVD disc production.
Interlaced video is an older format and not what you should be rendering to for playback on a computer or TV.

You should be rendering to a "progressive" style video format, which means each frame of video is a complete frame of video. This is what all video on YouTube uses and all Hollywood movies use as well. Any interlaced video that is played back on a computer, must first be de-interlaced which requires more processing power to be decoded as it is played. My guess is that your CPU and/or Graphics Card is struggling to play back the video and/or your don't have enough RAM (memory) installed, which may be causing the video to freeze.

For playback on your computer or viewing through a TV, I would recommend you try using the Mainconcept AVC encoder again, but with different settings.

1. First make sure your Vegas Project Properties are set to match your source video's project properties identically.
Vegas should ask you if you want to match your properties when you import your videos.
If you have not been doing this, you can manually do this yourself.
Press Match Media Video Settings in the top corner of the Project Properties window, then navigate to one of your videos in the project and select it.



2. Video panning sideways is always very difficult to encode and look good.
You may see an improvement if your turn off Re-Sampling.
Select ALL your videos on the timeline, then right-click and go to Switches/Disable.

3. For rendering, go to Project/Render As and select Mainconcept AVC/AAC - Internet HD 1080p
Press the Customize button.
Now set everything to look exactly like I show below.
Make sure to turn OFF "Allow source to adjust frame rate".
High is the highest quality encoding setting you can use.
I have also bumped up the Bit Rate settings slightly, however normally the default Bit Rates should be good enough for 1080-25fps video.




The version of Vegas Movie Studio you are using (v14), only uses the older Mainconcept AVC encoder. There is nothing wrong with that, however if you are using a modern computer that has a dedicated Graphics Card, you may get better Preview and Rendering performance using the new Magix AVC encoder.
You may like to download the free trial for Vegas Movie Studio Platinum 16 and test out the Magix AVC encoder.
However, if you are using a very old computer, it would be better to stick with version 14 for now.

Regards
Derek
Remember to turn everything off at least once a week, including your brain, then sit somewhere quiet and just chill out.
Unplugging is the best way to find solutions to your problems.
Peace :)
The following user(s) said Thank You: JoeD
26 Oct 2019 14:21 #2
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Replied by ericlnz on topic Issues with playback after rendering to a .m2ts file

I only have MS16 installed now so cannot check with MS14. I also use a Canon HFG10 camera but shoot at the top 24Mbps quality. I haven't had any problems exporting as m2ts with the Sony AVCHD template but I don't have projects that run to 50 minutes.

To comment on specific points:

Exporting as mp4, make sure you export as 50p, not 25p. You can with some templates export as 50i but I've found not all players handle 50i mp4 correctly.

The Blu-ray video streams are just that, video only. They are intended for DVDA. You export the audio separately and with the same file name. DVDA then imports both. In addition to using the files for proper discs I also use DVDA to create a quick disc image iso file as this "joins" the video and audio as a mt2s file in the iso Stream folder. With Win 10 you can easily open the iso file and copy out the m2ts file to use.

As for the System tab I wouldn't expect anything else. The template is for avc which is mpeg-4 not mpg-2. Mpeg-2 dates back to SD days. Mpeg-4 is a more modern and more efficient codec.

Nowadays I only use the Sony AVCHD template for initial renders to check on my TV. When I'm satisfied I export using Blu-ray templates and "join" as mentioned above. But I use the MainConcept AVC/AAC template, not the MainConcept mpeg-2.
26 Oct 2019 14:41 #3

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Replied by ericlnz on topic Issues with playback after rendering to a .m2ts file

Derek replied while I was typing.

Two areas where we diverge. If you are shooting 50fps, either progressive or interlaced, my experience is it is best to maintain 50 fps not reduce to 25fps. 25 fps is okay for static scenery type shots but any movement across the screen close or fast will appear jerky whereas 50 fps will be smooth. But it depends on the individual viewers eye/brain response.

Converting 50i to 50p is best done by a player, Blu-ray player, TV player etc. They generally do a better job (in real time) than software such as VMS. Hence as I shoot 50i I prefer to export as 50i m2ts. When I do convert my Blu-ray m2ts 50i to 50p mp4 for Vimeo I use Handbrake and decomb to convert. Handbrake usually does a better job than VMS.

It would be nice to have a more modern camera that shoots 1080 50p but if like me you are shooting 50i the above I consider the best way to go for the best results.
26 Oct 2019 15:32 #4

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Replied by JoeD on topic Issues with playback after rendering to a .m2ts file

Hi Derek,

Thanks for your very prompt reply and for walking me through the process. Thanks also to “ericlnz” who gave some advice. I am very much a novice when it comes to understanding the technical side of what I am shooting video in and how to render the video and what all the terms mean so am often “at sea” with this stuff. I very much enjoy the creative process of shooting the video and creating a project ready for render but after that…….. My projects are very large, often 2 hours of video, transitions, text, music etc that I split into two projects around 60 mins each.

One thing I have learnt from you Derek is always to match my video project properties when I first import my project. I also ticked the “disable resample” in every clip as I have also used some video from another camera which shoots HD video at 29.970p frames per second (about 98% of my project is shot in 50i). My understanding is that this gets around any issues using footage with different frame rates. I have adjusted the settings as you recommended Derek but have received the same outcome – blurred images when panning as opposed to the Sharp HD images I see when I plug the camcorder directly into my TV or when I render Sony AVC/MVC (*.mp4,*.m2ts,*.avc) = AVCHD 1920x1080-50i to produce a .m2ts file, but as covered this freezes partway through the playback process. I do have a small sample (226.99 MB) where the blurry vision is particularly pronounced that I can email directly to you Derek if you wanted to have a play with the clip.

Although my PC is about 4 years old now I think it is still capable of the task to render my video:
I am running Windows 7 Ultimate (I know I should probably upgrade to Windows 10 & have spoken to my computer guy about this but yet to happen).
Processor Inter® Core™i7-4930k CPU @3.40 FHz 3.70Ghz
RAM 16 Gb
System type 64-bit Operating System.

My graphics card: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 770
Chip Type: GeForce FTX 770
DAC Type: Tntegrated RAMDAC
Approx. Total Memory 4038 MB
Current display mode: 1920 x 1080 (32bit) (60Hz)

I also run two Samsung SSD 840 SCSI drives
And one Samsung SSD 860 SCDI drives which I upgraded to last year

I have never used Handbrake as suggested to by “ericlnz” so maybe this is something I should explore(?) but would need step by step instructions as how this is done. Apologies for being so inept but I am a novice. Thank you both for your time and help to date.

Joe
26 Oct 2019 19:47 #5

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Replied by DoctorZen on topic Issues with playback after rendering to a .m2ts file

There is something @Ericlnz has said that I cannot agree with and I don't want you to get confused.

Don't convert 1080-50i video to 1080-50p.

I know this can get confusing, but 50i is not the same as 50p fps.
50i is 50x fields(lines) per second - 25 odd lines of video and 25 even lines of video, which when de-interlaced becomes 25 "full frames" per second.
50i and 25i are the same thing - it's just that some programs call it 50i and some call it 25 interlaced.

If you convert 50i video to 50p with Vegas, Vegas will be creating 25 extra "fake" frames to double the frame rate to 50p.

My advise which is the opposite of Eric is to still with what I have said.
Your Project Properties will say 1920x1080-50i (25fps)
Render your video to 25 fps Progressive style.
Remember to turn everything off at least once a week, including your brain, then sit somewhere quiet and just chill out.
Unplugging is the best way to find solutions to your problems.
Peace :)
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26 Oct 2019 20:08 #6

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Replied by ericlnz on topic Issues with playback after rendering to a .m2ts file

But Derek, surely when VMS converts 50i to 50p it takes the top field lines to create a frame, then the bottom field lines to create another frame. Two different frames are created from the original interlaced frame. There is no doubling of frames. At least that is my experience. Blu-ray players do the same if their output is set to 50p. 50i TV transmissions are handled the same by TVs.
26 Oct 2019 20:18 #7

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Replied by DoctorZen on topic Issues with playback after rendering to a .m2ts file

Hi Joe - please don't get distracted by this conversion between Eric and myself.

Broadcast TV does not broadcast at 50p or 60p.
The interlace scanning system reads even-numbered and odd-numbered scanning lines alternately.
In PAL countries like UK, Australia, NZ and many countries in Europe, most free to air is broadcast as 50i (25 fps).
The 25 odd horizontal lines (fields) of video and 25 even horizontal lines (fields) of video create the illusion of full frame video.

In NTSC countries like the USA, most free to air is broadcast as 60i (29.97 fps).
The 30 odd horizontal lines (fields) of video and 30 even horizontal lines (fields) of video create the illusion of full frame video.

Sony has some short FAQs on this topic here:
www.sony.com.sg/electronics/support/articles/S500022049
www.sony.com.sg/electronics/support/articles/S500022767
www.sony.com.sg/electronics/support/articles/00129674

Blu-ray players do the same if their output is set to 50p

I don't know any Blu-ray player that can be set to output 50p and do some type of conversion.
Blu-ray players allow you to set the Frame Size output, not the Frame Rate output.
Frame Rate is determined by the frame rate of the encoded video on the Blu-ray disc.
The Blu-ray specification only allows a maximum of 1920x1080-50i/60i, 1920x1080-24p or 1280x720-50p/60p.
Most Hollywood Blu-ray movies are shot at 24fps progressive and the Blu-ray discs are encoded to 1920x1080-24p as well.
A true progressive frame rate of 50p or 60p is only supported by 1280x720 output.
Remember to turn everything off at least once a week, including your brain, then sit somewhere quiet and just chill out.
Unplugging is the best way to find solutions to your problems.
Peace :)
27 Oct 2019 17:53 #8

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Replied by JoeD on topic Issues with playback after rendering to a .m2ts file

Hi Derek,

Thanks for your updates. I have just downloaded Vegas Movie Studio 16 and rendered the small clip I mentioned using your suggested setting but unfortunately don’t see any improvement to my moving images. Sorry to sound like a broken record but it is very frustrating when the m2ts file has such awesome images. I even broke my m2ts project down the middle to halve the size (now about 60 minutes each in length 6.58 GB) but still having issues whether playing it with media player or via an external hard drive or USB pin drive onto my Samsung 4k TV. The TV is LED LCD (not QLED) but it handles Netflix, Free to air TV and Blu Ray DVD movies with great images so a bit lost as to why these media players struggle to play the whole file. Is there any other alternative such as recording the image then the audio track separately as @Ericlnz suggested then importing them together(?). I have invested so much time in this project that second best in terms of my panning images is very hard to accept.

I was going to try and burn the project to a Blu Ray disc but as it is 121 mins long I would need to do so over 2 discs and at $5 a pop would want to be sure that this would give me what I am after.

As an aside for future projects would I be better off with a video camera that shoots in progressive rather than interlaced video as from everything I have read over the past two days it seems shooting video in interlaced is now out of date with the new technology in TV and Computer screens. I am a bit of a Cannon fan and they have a model Legria HF G50 which can do 4K which I doubt I would use but it does shoot HD at 60p. From the articles I have read it would seem this should fix my issues with my panning images. What do you think?

As always I really appreciate your insights and your time.

I am just about at my end…..

Joe
29 Oct 2019 16:58 #9

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Replied by DoctorZen on topic Issues with playback after rendering to a .m2ts file

For maximum quality, you should be recording videos on your Canon HF G10 using MXP mode at 24 Mbps.

If you are filming fast moving scenes like sport or panning sideways, a camera that records to 50p or 60p is more suitable for this and will produce clearer pictures.
50i (25 fps) is half the frame rate and better suited for slower moving or still scenes.

Panning shots are very difficult to encode and never look good, especially if it is foliage like leaves in trees or running water.

The best quality encoder for rendering video is to use a program called Handbrake.
Handbrake has more detailed settings and compresses video more efficiently.
To use Handbrake, you have to first export your Vegas project to an "intermediate" (lossless) format, then import this new video into Handbrake and then finally render with Handbrake. If you used Vegas Pro instead, you can render directly from Vegas to Handbrake.

I recommend reading/watching these tutorials:
www.moviestudiozen.com/free-tutorials/sony-movie-studio-platinum/594-render-video-vegas-movie-studio-platinum-handbrake
www.moviestudiozen.com/free-tutorials/sony-vegas-pro/590-render-video-from-vegas-pro-to-handbrake
www.moviestudiozen.com/free-tutorials/miscellaneous-help-tutorials/595-handbrake-v1-1-1-beginners-guide-for-best-video-export-settings


There has to be a reason as to why your video is freezing halfway through playback.
There's probably something you are doing that you haven't told us yet, that is causing the problem.
To take this any further, you need to explain everything you have put in your project and to share ALL your settings.
Did you add any Video FX to your project ?
If so, which ones ?
If you add certain Video FX and push them too far, than can cause problems.
Too much sharpening is a good example.

Please upload a screen shot of your Project Properties.
Please upload a copy of your Render settings.

If you original video was recorded in a very long take and your camera recorded the video in 4GB chunks, that could also be a possible cause of your problem.
Using the inbuilt Device Explorer window in Vegas to import your videos is the best way to import long videos that were saved as 4GB chunks on your camera.
To use this function, you need to have the original files to still be on your SDHC card.
Device Explorer is located in View/Window/Device Explorer

Just in case you have accidentally turned something on that should be turned OFF, it might be a good idea to do a full program reset of Vegas.
A reset will restore all settings to default values and also clean the temporary files cache, which can sometimes become corrupted.
Reset instructions here:
www.moviestudiozen.com/doctor-zen-faq/573-how-to-reset-sony-software-to-default-settings#a1
Remember to turn everything off at least once a week, including your brain, then sit somewhere quiet and just chill out.
Unplugging is the best way to find solutions to your problems.
Peace :)
The following user(s) said Thank You: JoeD
29 Oct 2019 17:43 #10

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