Loved Magix Vegas Pro 16

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Replied by Eagle Six on topic Magix Vegas Pro 16

As excited as I was about the Storyboard project bin, it appears it may not be the tool for me, at least not yet. When I put more than 25 or so clips in the Storyboard Main Timeline bin, 20 or so are displayed with thumbnails, and others below the display windows show the clip icon. When scrolling down the display window, it takes a few seconds for these icon to refresh and display the thumbnail view. Then when scrolling back up to the clips display higher, they have fallen off to icons and it takes a few seconds for those to refresh and redraw to thumbnails. This is a bit annoying and slows down the process of managing and selecting.

The worse problem I had was easily overloading the Storyboard bin. If I keep the clip count down to 25-50, it seems to work as it should (not withstanding the annoying redraw of the clips), but I really don't see an advantage to managing only 25-50 clips. I started having problems crashes when I loaded in over 50-75 clips. I disabled the 'So4' and then managed to get 110 clips in the Storyboard bin before a crash. There was also assertion errors with certain source media using the Cineform codec. I tried turning GPU on/off, Dynamic RAM '200', '0', and some other amounts. At one point I actually got 133 clips before a crash.

I haven't found a successful way to Hover Scrub multiple sections of the same clip and loading the same clip to the track, only the first is effected by the Hover Scrub sometimes and other times it seems the trimming of Hover Scrub effects a difference occurrence of the same clip on the track.

I spent several hours trying to work this out on my system with no avail. I'm sure there is a learning curve involved here, and maybe there is something in my PC that is causing the limitation. I don't have a large robust server with multiple GPU's, but the source media was all FHD. If it were 4K material I could understand the limitations, but using HD , this box should handle it well.

The advantage I looked forward to was for larger projects requiring management of 100, 200, 300 or more source media clips. At this point, I don't feel I would trust the Storyboard feature for these size projects. Also, I have loaded over 300 clips in the Project Media bin without any problems, it just when using the Storyboard bin feature did Vegas Pro 16 hiccup. Hopefully Magix will find a solution for a future update release.
Best Regards......George
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01 Sep 2018 00:46 #21

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Replied by DoctorZen on topic Magix Vegas Pro 16

As excited as I was about the Storyboard project bin, it appears it may not be the tool for me, at least not yet. When I put more than 25 or so clips in the Storyboard Main Timeline bin, 20 or so are displayed with thumbnails, and others below the display windows show the clip icon. When scrolling down the display window, it takes a few seconds for these icon to refresh and display the thumbnail view. Then when scrolling back up to the clips display higher, they have fallen off to icons and it takes a few seconds for those to refresh and redraw to thumbnails. This is a bit annoying and slows down the process of managing and selecting.

The worse problem I had was easily overloading the Storyboard bin. If I keep the clip count down to 25-50, it seems to work as it should (not withstanding the annoying redraw of the clips), but I really don't see an advantage to managing only 25-50 clips. I started having problems crashes when I loaded in over 50-75 clips. I disabled the 'So4' and then managed to get 110 clips in the Storyboard bin before a crash. There was also assertion errors with certain source media using the Cineform codec. I tried turning GPU on/off, Dynamic RAM '200', '0', and some other amounts. At one point I actually got 133 clips before a crash.

I haven't found a successful way to Hover Scrub multiple sections of the same clip and loading the same clip to the track, only the first is effected by the Hover Scrub sometimes and other times it seems the trimming of Hover Scrub effects a difference occurrence of the same clip on the track.

I spent several hours trying to work this out on my system with no avail. I'm sure there is a learning curve involved here, and maybe there is something in my PC that is causing the limitation. I don't have a large robust server with multiple GPU's, but the source media was all FHD. If it were 4K material I could understand the limitations, but using HD , this box should handle it well.

The advantage I looked forward to was for larger projects requiring management of 100, 200, 300 or more source media clips. At this point, I don't feel I would trust the Storyboard feature for these size projects. Also, I have loaded over 300 clips in the Project Media bin without any problems, it just when using the Storyboard bin feature did Vegas Pro 16 hiccup. Hopefully Magix will find a solution for a future update release.


Make sure to report this on the official Vegas Forums, if you haven't already !
:idea: Remember to turn everything off at least once a week, including your brain, then sit somewhere quiet and just chill out.
Unplugging is the best way to find solutions to your problems. If you would like to share some love, post a customer testimonial or make a donation.
Peace :)
01 Sep 2018 12:02 #22

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Replied by Eagle Six on topic Magix Vegas Pro 16

Make sure to report this on the official Vegas Forums, if you haven't already !


I'm working on a short project in Resolve 15 this week, but the following week I plan to devote a few hours to systematically perform loads to a clean desktop and project in Vegas 16 to assure I have done my best to avoid my system being the issue and not ver 16. Then I will submit it to Magix support. I read posts on the Vegas Creative Software forums, but do not post there, as it is so derogatory and aggressive with fan boys and haters. I'm also in the middle of working out another bug issue with Magix support and I'm hoping that issue is resolved before sending in this one. So far, I haven't read of any ver 16 users having the exact same loading problem as I have. I will report back later, Thank You.
Best Regards......George
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02 Sep 2018 01:01 #23

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Replied by Eagle Six on topic Magix Vegas Pro 16

The project I anticipated to finish in Resolve 15 this coming week, I actually finished yesterday, and today I had a few hours so wanted to revisit loading up Vegas 16 to detect when I would get a crash in the Storyboard feature.

But first, I loaded over 200 clips in Resolve 15 without problems. I also loaded over 200 clips into the Project Media bin in Vegas 15 and 16 without any problems.

Before trying the Vegas 16 Storyboard again I thought I would check for updates and sure enough build 261 is available so I downloaded and installed it. Although there is nothing in the fix list for this build relating to my previous issue, either build 261 fixed the loading problem or this test I was holding my tongue right or maybe it is the stars are lined up better!! Anyway I got tired of loading after I got to 173 clips and was happy I had no problem. Until I then started to work with the clips in the main timeline storyboard bin. The very first clip was an mp4 (GoPro 1080-60p) that I trimmed using the I/O keys. When I went to drag it to the timeline, crash, Cineform assertion error! I experienced this assertion error on Thursday while loading clips, but thought it was associated with an avi file that I had rendered using the Cineform codec. But this time it was while handling a h.264 file. Another problem I will have to try an figure out.

After that crash, I went on to work some more with the functions of the storyboard and the more I use it, the more confused I get. I think I know how, but have been searching the web for a tutorial and picking up bits and pieces. One of the features of the storyboard is after putting the clip to the timeline, any changes you make to the trimming will be reflected live on that event on the timeline. Seems like a nice feature, but it comes with some confusion! And it doesn't always work.

If you place multiple occurrences of trimmed bits from a clip on the storyboard, and then make changes to the trimmed area in the storyboard clip, it will only effect the first occurrence placed on the timeline. But sometimes, when I made changes to a clip trimming in the storyboard it did not reflect live changes on the timeline....weird!

Another feature of the storyboard is it will automatically reorder the clips in the storyboard live if they are changed in the timeline. Again seems like a nice feature, but if you trim a certain area of a clip in the storyboard place it in the timeline, put one or more other clips on the same track in the timeline, then return to the original clip in the storyboard and trim a different section of it and place it at the end of track, that clip jumps behind previous clips in the storyboard, essentially screwing up the sequence!

Another annoying function with the storyboard hover scrub, and this stems from ilyk49 post asking if it can be turned off. Even with the thumbnails enlarged as large as possible, with a long clip, which may have various trimmed parts, or even just one short trimmed part, the mouse pointer precision isn't good enough to allow centering in the small slice of trimmed media and dragging it down, without the mouse pointer grabbing the 'out' line and dragging the trim line instead of dragging the clip to the timeline! But good golly this only happens sometimes!! If the hover scrub drag and trim could be turned off and just use the trim keyboard keys 'I' and 'O', I think it would be much easier and faster to use the storyboard.

I think the storyboard is a good feature, but the functions may be a bit premature without a way to make some settings to customize the work flow.

In comparison, for which most probably do not care and has nothing to do with improving Vegas Pro 16 and working out the kinks, Resolve 15 (public beta) works almost flawlessly. It doesn't crash on any of my media, it runs fast, and the storyboard feature is slick and smooth and works like one would expect, or at least how I expect.

I'll keep testing Vegas Pro 16 from time to time and when I can repeat a problem issue, I will have something to send to Magix support. Things are still too random at this point to file a complaint, but want to share with others if they run into similar problems.
Best Regards......George
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04 Sep 2018 08:42 #24

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Replied by Eagle Six on topic Magix Vegas Pro 16

After finishing several projects in DaVinci Resolve (no crashes), I went back to Vegas Pro 16 to attempt a logged work flow to identify several issues previously experienced. I also wanted to examine the Vegas Pro Video Stabilization FX feature and compare it to the Mercalli 4 Vegas Plugin. I cannot identify any stabilization configurations in Vegas Pro that is better than Mercalli.

However there are two drawbacks to Vegas that pretty much makes it worthless to me compared to the Mercalli plugin. Vegas Pro Stabilization requires that it be run as a Media FX applying it to the entire clip in the Media Bin, or a Sub-Clip in the Media Bin. Obviously running stabilization FX on an entire clip is more time consuming than just the part that will be used as an event in the timeline. This also almost always causes more black area to be cropped from the clip because usually there is more camera movement in the beginning and end of clips which are most often trimmed out in the final used portion.

A work around for this shortcoming is to run Vegas Stabilization on Sub-Clips. Using Sub-clips is not in my workflow as it is an additional step, placing additional clips in the already crowded Media Bin, and pretty much takes the joy out of using the Hover Scrub trim tools to reduce time, by adding time to create the Sub-Clip and then keeping track of the original clip and Sub-Clips, and there may be many Sub-Clips from the original!

Also, I often use Mercalli at the Track level to stabilize many events on that track. I put those clips which I know will require stabilization on one track and others of the project not requiring stabilization on other tracks. Then run the stabilization on the track with the shaky events. No can do with the Vegas Video Stabilizer.

Maybe there is another workflow I have missed, but so far the Vegas Pro Video Stabilizer isn't any better than Mercalli (it also takes about twice a long as Mercalli) and isn't fitting very well within my workflow.

As for the other issues, I was unable to find and log a workflow to repeat the issues (they are still too random) because I keep getting interrupted by assertion errors, which I suppose I will have to work on those first. It's beginning to be a bit frustrating and maybe time to back off using Vegas Pro 16 and wait for a couple of updates to smooth out the bugs.
Best Regards......George
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20 Sep 2018 01:55 #25

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Replied by den24601 on topic Magix Vegas Pro 16

Doctor Zen,

Is VP16 bug-free enough for you to do a review?
Dennis
28 Sep 2018 20:53 #26

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Replied by DoctorZen on topic Magix Vegas Pro 16

Doctor Zen,
Is VP16 bug-free enough for you to do a review?
Dennis


I am writing my review for Vegas Pro 16 right now!
I should have it published in the next couple of days.
:idea: Remember to turn everything off at least once a week, including your brain, then sit somewhere quiet and just chill out.
Unplugging is the best way to find solutions to your problems. If you would like to share some love, post a customer testimonial or make a donation.
Peace :)
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29 Sep 2018 01:15 #27

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Replied by pioneer on topic Magix Vegas Pro 16

Looking forward to seeing it Derek, can you squeeze in a short bit about the flying planet Fx cannot seem to get that to work well. Cheers John
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29 Sep 2018 01:18 #28

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Replied by Eagle Six on topic Magix Vegas Pro 16

After downloading and installing the latest Vegas Pro 16 update, build 307, and reading through the new features and fixes I noticed this, "The Auto Zoom option now works more exactly to eliminate black borders". Thinking this was in reference to the auto zoom in the 'Video Stabilization' FX, I went back to test it out again. I have the original source media I used in previous test, but do not have the results, so I am going on memory for a comparison test.

It appears the auto zoom (black border elimination) in build 307 may be worse than previous builds when I applied it to the source media clip! However it may be better when applied to a subclip of the source media, than in previous subclip test (again I'm going on memory!). The actual stabilization results from the Magix Video Stabilization FX is still not as good as I get from the Mercalli 4 Plugin!

For those who include subclips in their workflow, this may be of use, for me it doesn't fit well. Also, different types of source media from different cameras require different stabilization settings to get the best results, and I have been testing a typical sample, which may be much different from other users, so I would recommend users test a typical source media clip from their own cameras and recording style, rather than rely on the disappointment I have with it at this time.

NOTE: My typical planned workflow with Vegas Pro 16. Use the Hoover trim function in the Media Bin to make rough trimming of the beginning and ends of a take, which very often have crazy movement of the camera (this plays havoc with stabilization) and is wasted footage. Bring that to the timeline inserted on the appropriate track location. Fine tune the trimming and place of this event. Then run Mercalli 4 plugin stabilization. Often I will place events needing stabilization on a dedicated track and run Mercalli on the track level. However, because Vegas forces the their Video Stabilization FX to only work in the media bin (this is the same with the Sony legacy Stabilize FX), and it does not recognize hoover trim, the choice is to run it on the entire clip or create a subclip.
Best Regards......George
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31 Oct 2018 05:05 #29

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Replied by DoctorZen on topic Magix Vegas Pro 16

After downloading and installing the latest Vegas Pro 16 update, build 307, and reading through the new features and fixes I noticed this, "The Auto Zoom option now works more exactly to eliminate black borders". Thinking this was in reference to the auto zoom in the 'Video Stabilization' FX, I went back to test it out again. I have the original source media I used in previous test, but do not have the results, so I am going on memory for a comparison test.

It appears the auto zoom (black border elimination) in build 307 may be worse than previous builds when I applied it to the source media clip! However it may be better when applied to a subclip of the source media, than in previous subclip test (again I'm going on memory!). The actual stabilization results from the Magix Video Stabilization FX is still not as good as I get from the Mercalli 4 Plugin!

For those who include subclips in their workflow, this may be of use, for me it doesn't fit well. Also, different types of source media from different cameras require different stabilization settings to get the best results, and I have been testing a typical sample, which may be much different from other users, so I would recommend users test a typical source media clip from their own cameras and recording style, rather than rely on the disappointment I have with it at this time.

NOTE: My typical planned workflow with Vegas Pro 16. Use the Hoover trim function in the Media Bin to make rough trimming of the beginning and ends of a take, which very often have crazy movement of the camera (this plays havoc with stabilization) and is wasted footage. Bring that to the timeline inserted on the appropriate track location. Fine tune the trimming and place of this event. Then run Mercalli 4 plugin stabilization. Often I will place events needing stabilization on a dedicated track and run Mercalli on the track level. However, because Vegas forces the their Video Stabilization FX to only work in the media bin (this is the same with the Sony legacy Stabilize FX), and it does not recognize hoover trim, the choice is to run it on the entire clip or create a subclip.


Thanks for your report back Eagle Six :)
We must be tuned into the same radio station right now, because I concur with your results and recommended workflow :!: :idea:
Mercalli wins hands down every time. They have the best BBQ sauce on Earth.
:idea: Remember to turn everything off at least once a week, including your brain, then sit somewhere quiet and just chill out.
Unplugging is the best way to find solutions to your problems. If you would like to share some love, post a customer testimonial or make a donation.
Peace :)
The following user(s) said Thank You: Eagle Six
31 Oct 2018 09:42 #30

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