Loved Magix Vegas Pro 16

Eagle Six wrote:

DoctorZen wrote: Make sure to report this on the official Vegas Forums, if you haven't already !

I'm working on a short project in Resolve 15 this week, but the following week I plan to devote a few hours to systematically perform loads to a clean desktop and project in Vegas 16 to assure I have done my best to avoid my system being the issue and not ver 16. Then I will submit it to Magix support. I read posts on the Vegas Creative Software forums, but do not post there, as it is so derogatory and aggressive with fan boys and haters. I'm also in the middle of working out another bug issue with Magix support and I'm hoping that issue is resolved before sending in this one. So far, I haven't read of any ver 16 users having the exact same loading problem as I have. I will report back later, Thank You.

UPDATE: There really is no update!! I was waiting for Magix support to provide a solution to a previous issue I had with Vegas Pro 15 and 16, or at least a reply that they have no solution. It has been 4 months and I have yet to receive a reply from Magix Support, although I do have emails that this issue was submitted and would be addressed. So like many others I have read about, I too have fallen into the deep black hole of Magix Support, never to have been heard of again!

Since this previous post I have been monitoring and making a few post at the Magix Vegas Creative Software forums. It has settled down from last year, but there are still a few users there that love to send other users down a rabbit hole because of the instability of Vegas Pro 15/16 with the various GPU's and drivers. No doubt onboard or added graphics cards, along with their memory and the driver version installed can and will effect Vegas Pro performance and stability, it seems it is more often than not the cause and then the user is faced with hours of tampering with their system and also often a decision to upgrade or switch out their expensive GPU.

Many of the issues I had initially with Vegas Pro 16 have been repeatedly discussed at the Vegas Creative Software forum, with some of the issues reportedly addressed with the latest update, and others have never been satisfactorily addressed for many users.

I'm still tinkering with Vegas Pro 13, 15, 16 and Movie Studio 15, but for my production I have successfully migrated to DaVinci Resolve and have been pretty much tickled with it. It of course isn't perfect. I'm not familiar with an NLE, composting or color correction program that is rock solid, but there are those which are better than others. Apple (I grit my teeth with I use that word as reference...ugh!!) pretty much locks their NLE down and has closer quality control over the features they offer. Blackmagic is doing a similar approach with what systems they will support (only Windows 10), but when an NLE developer overs a product that will run on anything Windows based (relatively speaking as in later versions Windows 7, 10, etc) but opens the door to all kinds of GPU's (which many cater to gaming), I think the width of the offerings from the industry and those options which users may select based on very thin recommendations, it is quite difficult for a developer to satisfy all the possibility that may be included in any given desktop or laptop. Just my personal opinion, we all have one.

Perhaps Magix will get a better handle on the support and stability issues with various features (thinking v17 maybe) and if that is a benefit, it will not take me long to jump back into it. So here is hoping they make it. And, there are many users, I suspect, who are managing fine with Magix Vegas Pro and Movie Studio and have no real reason to complain or consider moving to something else. I used to be one of them. Used to be!

Thanks for the report George

I agree with your summation of Vegas and the broader Video Editing universe.

By my rough estimate, I have conservatively answered more than 30,000 messages in total (I think it is much higher than that) on YouTube, all Vegas forums and private email correspondence. During this time I have seen very specific patterns emerge. I concur with your analysis about Graphics Cards and Drivers. The number of different GPU models and driver combinations is massive and is definitely responsible for many problems. No one could possible have enough time and resources to investigate/test all these combinations. Then add in bad BIOS versions that the average Joe wouldn't have a clue about.

Another major factor that contributes to people having problems with Vegas or any other video editing program, is the human factor.
People do stupid things on their computer - sometimes knowingly and many times they haven't a clue what they just did, like installing K-lite Codec pack or installing pirated "cracked" versions of Vegas that screw up the Windows registry. The problem with the human factor, is that people never tell you about what they actually did until after you spent days trying to help them.

I wish you all the best with DaVinci Resolve.
Next year I would like invest some decent time in learning Resolve.
If you haven't already discovered it, I highly recommend you study the YouTube channel Goats Eye View.
This person has uploaded a full beginners guide to DaVinci Resolve. I have downloaded all her tutorials to keep in my tutorial library.
www.youtube.com/channel/UC0xNsrzO-7vnWuCKwqgw2ng

One final thing...
If you have anything really specific with Vegas Pro that you would like to see fixed, please let me know.
I have a new contact at Vegas that I can pass information to, that has the power to investigate bugs.
If you type a short description of any problems and/or supply a link to where you posted the problem on the official Vegas Forums, I would be happy to pass it on to my contact at Magix.

Regards
Derek

DoctorZen wrote: Another major factor that contributes to people having problems with Vegas or any other video editing program, is the human factor.
People do stupid things on their computer - sometimes knowingly and many times they haven't a clue what they just did, like installing K-lite Codec pack or installing pirated "cracked" versions of Vegas that screw up the Windows registry. The problem with the human factor, is that people never tell you about what they actually did until after you spent days trying to help them.

I feel your pain, on a much smaller scale of course. My favorite example is this one line post......I just installed Vegas and it constantly crashes, I can't get my work done and I need to finish it today. When I read something like this I just want to scream WHAT, you just installed Vegas (what Vegas!) and you need to finish today (what time today!!). Then there are the hundreds of questions and the answers to try to help like, what version of Vegas, what build of Vegas, what are the system specs, what are the source media specs, what are the project settings, what are the FX applied, what are the render template settings, what are you doing when it crashes? WHAT, WHAT, WHAT?!?!? Yes, I feel your pain, but I also commend you on your patience with some posters and problems you take on to help others. We often don't know what we don't know!! On the flip side, fortunately, there are many users who actually provide valuable information and spend the time to read and answer your questions in the quest to enlightenment.

DoctorZen wrote: If you haven't already discovered it, I highly recommend you study the YouTube channel Goats Eye View.
This person has uploaded a full beginners guide to DaVinci Resolve. I have downloaded all her tutorials to keep in my tutorial library.
www.youtube.com/channel/UC0xNsrzO-7vnWuCKwqgw2ng

Thank You for the link. Yes I have seen this before, but it seems to only cover ver 12 and 12.5, I'm working in version 15.2.1. Although I'm sure there are many similarities between these versions, so I will spend some time looking to find some benefit.

DoctorZen wrote: If you have anything really specific with Vegas Pro that you would like to see fixed, please let me know.

The issue I sent to Magix Support was based on a random screen freeze. I experienced this in Vegas Pro 15 (all builds) and Vegas Pro 16 (all builds, except have not seen it in the latest released build 352 because I just installed it). I think it is something very specific in my system based on not finding it in searches or reading of anyone else having this issue.

It is so random that I can not reliably repeat it. Sometimes I can go 15 minutes before it happens, and another 15 minutes before happening again, and other times it can start almost immediately within a project and repeat within seconds, on and on! Sometimes it is annoying and other times it is frustrating. When the screen freezes, the top window displayed usually seems to lose quality a bit. Pressing Ctrl+Alt+Del, which brings up the splash screen (Windows 7) where I can select Task Manager, Switch Users, Change Password, etc, then selecting 'Cancel' will release the frozen screen.

For example, I click on 'Import Media', then explorer window pop up. I double click on a clip, then the screen freezes. I do 'Ctrl+Alt+Del', then 'Cancel' and the explorer windows has closed and the clip I double clicked on is inserted into the 'Project Media' bin. In that example the chain goes out of Vegas Pro to Windows, but in other examples it will happen when selecting and FX, for example, or selecting Pan & Crop, etc. Most often I have made so many keystrokes it is difficult to log them and when I can log them, I cannot get it to repeat! Now this line you have heard a thousand times.......I think I have tried just about everything to remedy this issue, obviously without success. I think it is linked to the GPU, but short of replacing it, reconfiguring and loading multiple drivers, old and new, haven't had any effect.

At this point, I would like to tinker around with the latest build 352, before asking you to pursue this. If it still has an issue, and if you are willing to pursue it, I will provide system specs, source media specs, or any other specs you may need. And, Thank You for offering to pass this on to your Magix contact. I just finished configuring two camera setups, which basically are a GH4 recording DNxHD 422 10 bit V-Log L to an Atomos Ninja Flame with redundant audio via camera and Rode Videomic Pro+ on a Moza Aircross gimbal and the 2nd, the same stuff on an Axler camera cage. So this coming week I have several test sessions scheduled to test out and practice with these rigs. I will use Vegas Pro 16 build 352 to process the test footage, which I'm sure will be enough to trigger the screen freeze issue if it still exist.

Thank You again Derek, hope you are feeling well and look forward to your new tutorials you have planned.

Eagle Six wrote: The issue I sent to Magix Support was based on a random screen freeze. I experienced this in Vegas Pro 15 (all builds) and Vegas Pro 16 (all builds, except have not seen it in the latest released build 352 because I just installed it). I think it is something very specific in my system based on not finding it in searches or reading of anyone else having this issue.

It is so random that I can not reliably repeat it. Sometimes I can go 15 minutes before it happens, and another 15 minutes before happening again, and other times it can start almost immediately within a project and repeat within seconds, on and on! Sometimes it is annoying and other times it is frustrating. When the screen freezes, the top window displayed usually seems to lose quality a bit. Pressing Ctrl+Alt+Del, which brings up the splash screen (Windows 7) where I can select Task Manager, Switch Users, Change Password, etc, then selecting 'Cancel' will release the frozen screen.

For example, I click on 'Import Media', then explorer window pop up. I double click on a clip, then the screen freezes. I do 'Ctrl+Alt+Del', then 'Cancel' and the explorer windows has closed and the clip I double clicked on is inserted into the 'Project Media' bin. In that example the chain goes out of Vegas Pro to Windows, but in other examples it will happen when selecting and FX, for example, or selecting Pan & Crop, etc. Most often I have made so many keystrokes it is difficult to log them and when I can log them, I cannot get it to repeat! Now this line you have heard a thousand times.......I think I have tried just about everything to remedy this issue, obviously without success. I think it is linked to the GPU, but short of replacing it, reconfiguring and loading multiple drivers, old and new, haven't had any effect.

At this point, I would like to tinker around with the latest build 352, before asking you to pursue this. If it still has an issue, and if you are willing to pursue it, I will provide system specs, source media specs, or any other specs you may need. And, Thank You for offering to pass this on to your Magix contact. I just finished configuring two camera setups, which basically are a GH4 recording DNxHD 422 10 bit V-Log L to an Atomos Ninja Flame with redundant audio via camera and Rode Videomic Pro+ on a Moza Aircross gimbal and the 2nd, the same stuff on an Axler camera cage. So this coming week I have several test sessions scheduled to test out and practice with these rigs. I will use Vegas Pro 16 build 352 to process the test footage, which I'm sure will be enough to trigger the screen freeze issue if it still exist.

Thank You again Derek, hope you are feeling well and look forward to your new tutorials you have planned.

I think I may have a fix for the screen freezes, or perhaps better put a work around. I use Windows 7 Pro in classic view mode (I know maybe it is time for me to move on......but I'm not ready as yet for Win 10!). I recently changed to Aero Themes and haven't had a screen freeze as yet! I hope this isn't one of those "I spoke too soon" things. I did, about 10 days ago, send another email to Magix Support asking if there had been an update or any progress on my case, but again I have heard nothing, which is a bit disappointing.

If changing to Aero Themes is the work around, then my suspicion that the issue is within my system (or at least in part) would have been correct. I think I will wait another week of tinkering around with Vegas Pro 16 (build 352) and if there are no more screen freezes I will follow up with Magix, although it probably doesn't make a difference as I think my issue has fallen into that huge black hole hoovering some where over Germany. My biggest concern with Magix Support isn't that they came up with no fix, it's that they failed to communicate. So, as I often tell my wife, MAGIX we have a failure to communicate!

I did speak too soon I suppose as I just got another screen freeze. Imported a sample clip to the Project Media bin. Performed two Vegas Stabilize settings on the clip and added it to a timeline track. Went to add another source media and got the freeze screen. Ctrl+Shift+Del, then clicked on 'Cancel' back to Vegas Pro and the screen freeze had released! So, the problem is still there, but so far I have only had this one in over a week of tinkering with Vegas Pro 16 build 352.

Eagle Six wrote: I did speak too soon I suppose as I just got another screen freeze. Imported a sample clip to the Project Media bin. Performed two Vegas Stabilize settings on the clip and added it to a timeline track. Went to add another source media and got the freeze screen. Ctrl+Shift+Del, then clicked on 'Cancel' back to Vegas Pro and the screen freeze had released! So, the problem is still there, but so far I have only had this one in over a week of tinkering with Vegas Pro 16 build 352.

Vegas Stabilize uses a lot of resources.
I am wondering if after you use the Stabilizer, it might be a good idea to save the project and re-boot Vegas and/or your computer as well?
I have got into the habit of always re-booting my computer before I do a render, and this has reduced render crashes dramatically, so I am thinking about using the same theory when it comes to using the Stabilize tool.

I also wonder if Windows 10 would produce better results. As far as I am aware, Windows 10 is better optimized for modern computer hardware (under the hood). I have been on Windows 1o for a long time now. I do remember that after I switched from W7 to W10, Vegas seemed to crash less. However, because each person's computer is so different, it is near impossible to compare apples with different apples.

Thank You Derek for the suggestions and recommendations, I agree. If these were hard lockups that required me to force close Vegas with Task Manager or even worse force re-booting, it would be a whole different level and very aggravating. As it is, it's annoying, especially when it happens repeatedly within a couple minutes. Because the work around, press Ctrl+Alt+Del, then when the blue screen appears simply left click on 'Cancel' to release the screen freeze, I was thinking it has something to do with Windows 7 (updated) and/or my hardware (perhaps the GPU R9 390 card). But, the only time I get a freeze screen is when using Vegas Pro 15 or 16. No other programs or NLE's. So, I figure it has something to do between my system and Magix's version of Vegas Pro (has never happened with Sony Vegas Pro 13).

On the other side, I have not been experiencing some of the crazy lock-ups and crashes reported by other users of Vegas Pro 16, especially since the upgrade to build 352. Although I am producing in DaVinci Resolve 15 (almost as stable as a rock for me), I continue to test and experiment with Vegas Pro and can do some really wacky things, which when Vegas Pro 16 (first build) was introduce I did have some strange crashes, but build 352 has been rather stable for me so far. As you point out there are so many differences between systems, it is not uncommon for me to read about others having problems that I cannot duplicate on my box. It's pretty much the same with any NLE. So I am happy that so far, I am not experiencing the crazy problems that some others users have with either Vegas Pro 16 or DaVinci Resolve 15.

As yourself, during real projects I save often, and save often in tiers, and always re-boot and run Vegas Pro clean (no other programs running) when it's time to render.

Windows 10 is something I need to migrate to sooner or later, I just prefer it to be later at this point. I have another desktop (Windows 7) used for banking, email, other business and it's a bit old for Windows 10, so I'm kind of dragging my heels to replace it. When I do it will most likely come with Windows 10 and then it will be time to upgrade my production box to Windows 10 as well. I'm pretty confident I'm alone in the woods with this screen freeze thing otherwise I'm sure there would be plenty of folks complaining and I have yet to find one during my hundreds of searches.

Again Thank You Derek.